Rival Gangs Declare War in Daejeon

After two rival gangs in the city of Daejeon declared wars of revenge, episodes of gang violence have put the city on alert and led to a police crackdown. Online, Koreans are disgusted by reports of gangsters taking off their shirts and showing their full body tattoos to scare private citizens. While Korean movies romanticize the gangster life, such as 2001′s Friend and 2011′s blockbuster hit Nameless Gangster, average Koreans consider modern gangsters to be little more than bullies that should be eliminated. Organized crime in Daejeon was in the news earlier this year as well, when police arrested 73 people in connection with a gambling ring.

The early 1990's bouffant Korean gangster, from the 2011 movie, Nameless Gangster [범죄와의 전쟁]

The early 1990′s bouffant Korean gangster, from the 2011 movie, Nameless Gangster [범죄와의 전쟁]

Article from Kyunghyang Newspaper:

Two Organized Crime Syndicates Declare to Each Other: “We’re coming for you.”

Signs of war are growing on the nighttime streets of Daejeon. Reports are emerging that the two largest organized crime groups in the region are preparing to take revenge on each other.

The Daejeon Police Department is currently surveilling two organized crime syndicates, nicknamed “A” and “B”. Both groups are active in the entertainment districts of Yuseong, Dunsan and Yongjeon. On September 2nd, the police announced that recent feuding between the two groups has led them to step up their surveillance of the two groups’ movements in the area.

A police representative explained what gave rise to this ‘gangster war’, “Members of the two criminal organizations were drinking in the same establishment when a dispute arose between them, leading to a fistfight and one member stabbing someone from the other group in the leg…The victim stated that ‘this won’t be forgotten’, we now believe that they are in the midst of preparing for ‘war’.” Another police official stated that, “We have detected that members of one criminal group have been planning large scale violence at their base in an area motel.”

According to police, the syndicates’ movements are unusual, leading them to start a “100-Day Crackdown on Organized Crime”, starting from the 12th of August to the 19th of November. The Daejeon Police Department Investigation Team and the RCU have moblized all of their active officers and are conducting constant covert surveillance.

Recently, an incident where members of one of the criminal groups attacked an ordinary citizen has led to fear of future attacks and heightened concern in the city. At 3:00 a.m. on the morning of July 1st, a twenty-one-year-old man inside a bar in Daejeon’s Seogu area knocked his shoulder against a gang member from the A gang, which resulted in nine members of the group shoving the young man and three other bar patrons into an alleyway. The gang members proceeded to show off their tattoos to the citizens and talk about their membership in the gang. The nine men then jumped on the three citizens, beating one of them so badly that he had to be hospitalized for three weeks. A similar incident happened on June 1st at 3:00 in the morning, where an offense against members of the same gang inside of a bar lead to them beating a man so badly that he had to be in the hospital for four weeks.


This footage from the Daejeon Daily News shows a brawl between rival gang members inside a Daejeon noraebang during November 2012.

The police described the two incidents as inter-gang violence and, in an effort to show control of the situation, arrested the nine gang members, including the man who initially started the fight.

The Chief of the Investigative Branch of the Daejeon Police Department stated, “When violence erupts between rival gangs, it causes fear among our citizens. We are taking steps to prevent the gangs from carrying out illegal activities before they start.”

Comments from Daum:

-_-붕가:

Airdrop some special forces in, give them live ammunition, and kill ‘em all.

꼬마우럭:

Human garbage.

정룡:

Take this opportunity to crush them all.

왼발잡이:

It’s a crime just to form a criminal organization. Isn’t it a mistake to hold back and just watch?? Wouldn’t it be better to just stamp this problem out early??

wowye:

Gangsters are eating away at our society. They are like a late-stage cancer. Please cut away this cancer.

청화:

Couldn’t you just grab them, cut off their heads, and hang them in the public square? Don’t waste precious time on surveillance, just kill them.

Map of organized crime activity in South Korea, based on 2011 police data. The large numbers represent the number of criminal groups, the small number are the number of affiliated members.

Map of organized crime activity in South Korea, based on 2011 police data. The large numbers represent the number of criminal groups, the small number are the number of affiliated members.

달구지:

The problem is that they are never sentenced harshly enough.

오스카델라호야:

Hey, you nine guys, get over here, we’re going to stomp all over you. You bunch of thugs, trying to scare people by showing off your tattoos.

향기777:

So that’s what a gangster is, huh? Guys who would never dare to fight somebody one-to-one but who are happy to get their crew and jump on somebody when they outnumber them.

왕과나:

The only solution is for the government to bring back the Samcheong Training Camp [a concentration camp President Chun Doo-Hwan created in the 1980s to hold large numbers of gang members].

www.우리.com

Isn’t this the time to use live ammunition?

yangwoosuk:

Let’s stop calling them ‘gangsters’ to begin with since they’re just a bunch of back alley wannabe thugs [양아치], just another kind of beggars. Guys who couldn’t do anything on their own. They screwed around in school and now just talk about all the trouble they caused when they were young. Now they whip off their shirts and show off their tattoos, bunch of beggars.

고객:

There are six police precincts in Daejeon, right? Combine all of their officers and you could get a strike force of around 60 people. Damn, just take those officers down and show what kind of force you have –;;

palgae1522:

Ke ke ke, so nine guys jumped three guys because some guys brushed their shoulders?! These bastards aren’t gangsters, they’re a bunch of pussy wannabe thugs.

제주님:

Gangsters!! Play cleanly without using weapons! Kim Du-Han and Sirasoni [regarded as the most famous Korean gangsters in history] must be laughing in their graves! Go back to the good old days.

너랑나:

Garbage like that like to threaten people weaker than them and grovel in front of people stronger than them. Scum hang out together and all try to show off how strong they are. Get them alone in a one-to-one fight, give them some black eyes, break their hands and legs and then you’ll knock some sense into them.

여우와는살아도곰하고는못살겠네:


Park Chung Hee’s contribution…complete crackdown on gangsters
Chun Doo-Hwan’s contribution…Samcheong Training Camp
Roh Tae-Woo’s contribution…the War on Crime
These are relatively good contributions they made..

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  • Bryan Cheron

    I guess the “anywhere outside of Seoul” thinking that most Koreans residing in Seoul seem to have has affected me, because even though I’m intellectually aware of Daejeon as being a metropolitan area, I think of it as a quaint countryside town free of crime.

    • harvz

      Daejeon is a city full of backwards country people. A bigger version in Nonsan if you will.

  • Ami

    This is lamest gang news ever. Which… is probably a good thing?
    Anyway, I guess I’ll stick to watching documentaries about black and latino gangs till further notice. Get on your game Korea!

    • Isaac

      Just goes to show you that US leads the world in crime. Congratulations.

      • lasolitaria

        No, it doesn’t.

        • Isaac
          • lasolitaria

            That data is from 2002. Check these 2011 stats:
            http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/Homicide/Globa_study_on_homicide_2011_web.pdf

            The US is not even close:

            Now get your data from the source, not from “nationmaster.shit”: http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/United-Nations-Surveys-on-Crime-Trends-and-the-Operations-of-Criminal-Justice-Systems.html

            Leaving aside considerations such as differences in country population and crime definitions, these stats are only a measure of how many crimes are reported and dealt with, not how many crimes actually happen. There’s no way in hell Japan and Sweden have more crime than Brazil and Colombia, but the wide definition of crime in the former and the narrow definition of crime in the latter (coupled with poor law enforcement) make up for those statistics.

          • Freeflight

            When the US ain’t even close, how come they are world leaders in terms of incarceration rate?

            http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_stats.php?area=all&category=wb_poprate

            Sure that does not say a lot about “actual crime” going on, but either there is a lot of crime in the US, or the US government is trying to criminalize it’s whole population.

            I’d guess it’s a combination of both, but i seriously doubt these rates are the result of US Law enforcement just being way more awesome than other countries Law enforcement.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

            Apparently you’re unaware of US drug laws. Non-violent marijuana smokers are “prisoners” in the US, whereas murderers in the Philippines and rapists in the D.R. of Congo might not even get reported.

            Incarceration rate is NOT a proxy for actual crime committed, and 716 prisoners per 100,000 people hardly qualifies as trying to “criminalize the whole population”.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

          • Freeflight

            The US ain’t the only “Western Country” that locks away Non-violent Marijuana smokers, that same problem exists all over the western hemisphere.

            But unlike most other western countries, the US at least has some states that allow medical or recreational use and they are getting more. Sure Federal laws still ban it, but most users in these states do not get affected by this, it’s mostly the dispensaries that get affected by this.

            I know it’s hard to believe, but in that regard the US has actually become way more progressive than many EU states.

            Also your homicide rates ain’t perfect either, according to them places like Niger, Palestine or Albania are more “safe” than the US. But parts of these places even lack any organized Law-Enforcement.

            So like i said before: It’s most likely a combination of there actually being more crime and parts of the population being criminalized. I’d also guess that having that many damn guns around ain’t helping either.

          • Ill kim

            matt, somehow i suspect you follow tyt as well. Pretty level headed thinking here.

          • lasolitaria

            You’re going way off your initial motion here. Yes, we could say the US leads the world in terms of incarceration rates but that in no way means the US leads the world in crime -it only means US laws can be far more extreme than in other countries so even a casual joint smoker can end up in jail and/or enforcement agents are more competent/eager to make it happen. Yes, we could say there’s a lot of crime (the nature of which is debatable) going on in the US but that still doesn’t account for your motion that the US leads the world in crime. Even if both the above statements are proven true, neither helps your case a single bit.

          • Freeflight

            Even if the US laws are “more extreme” they are still the laws in effect and as such breaking them is still considered a crime.

            So trying to argue that the US is applying “extreme laws so all those locked up people don’t count” really does not cut it.

            You also know very well that there is no “solid proof”, because you can always argue with dark figures not showing up in any statistics, crimes not being reported, crimes not getting noticed and so on.

            But the US is a world leader in terms of prison population, such a “record” comes with it’s own set of prejudices, one of them being “Where many people are locked up, many people commit crimes”.

            You can’t have one without the other, except when you claim that the US is locking people up unlawfully, like some kind of regime, but it’s not up to you to decide which laws are lawful and which not.

            The US has these laws in place, people get locked up according to these laws, there are a lot of people locked up -> the country ends up being a prison planet.

            So either the US is a regime, criminalizing and locking away large parts of a an, actually innocent, population or the population is actually more likely to commit crimes.

            Like i said before: I’d bet it’s a combination of both. US Americans have always been keen to “take the law in their own hands” with no regard to actual authority, especially if that authority happens to be federal. It’s in their nature to still think their own personal freedom overwrites any greater societal rules or commitments.

          • lasolitaria

            “Where many people are locked up, many people commit crimes”.
            “You can’t have one without the other”.

            No.

            No because it is a non sequitur. Even if for the sake of argument we 1) overlook the context of gangs and admit into the discussion every conduct that has ever broken a law in place and is and has ever been a jail-worthy crime somewhere (including blasphemy, apostasy, adultery, sodomy, spreading of “subversive” ideas…) AND 2) assume that every statistic you throw at me is a perfect reflection of reality (which is far from true for many criminal justice systems), being locked up is not a necessary and unavoidable consequence of the commission of a crime. They are two completely different things and actually there can be several stages in between. Thinking otherwise is naive and ignorant, unless you mean that only illegal actions that are prosecuted and/or result in jail can be considered crimes, which is plain stupid.

            As someone who knows the US, Mexico and Colombia first hand, the statement that there is more crime in the US than in Mexico or Colombia (countries where you directly or indirectly experience some form of crime almost every day and criminal organizations have been known to outpower enforcement agencies in several instances) strikes me as fanciful and ridiculous.

            The fact that Americans “take the law in their own hands” and “think their own personal freedom overwrites any greater societal rules or commitments” has nothing to do with the US leading crime in the world. It has everything to do, though, with your ignorance of how the US works, the principles it was based on and the “nature” of Americans.

  • B.

    “Members of the two criminal organizations were drinking in the same establishment when a dispute arose between them, leading to a fistfight and one member stabbing someone from the other group in the leg…The victim stated that ‘this won’t be forgotten’, we now believe that they are in the midst of preparing for ‘war’.”

    This is probably the most retarded thing I’ve read in a while.

    • stephen chow

      yeah in hong kong triads are worshiped in movies and tv.probally because they have links in the film industry.

    • MikeyT

      lol!!!!! Totally agree!!!! its like “Whoaaaaaaaaa”! im freaking scared now!!! lol

  • takasar1

    Lol how many ofthese netizens would say this to their faces. It’s very easy to call someone a wannabe behind a computer screen. Anyhow this isn’t exactly the yakuza or the mob so I’m not really interested

    • B.

      /care

    • harvz

      Most Korean gangsters I’ve seen are just fat guys who rent out “officetel” rooms and turn them into makeshift brothels. Not exactly the Mexican cartels having an equivalent of a civil war.

  • Butsu

    Seem kind of laid back tbh, at least they are not executing eachother with guns. That shit ain’t fun.

    • mr.wiener

      There was a Mafia war in Melbourne a while back. One bunch of losers killing the other over imagined slights and stuff like that. Since no innocents were involved and there were no public killings the police just stood back and let them go for it.

      • Butsu

        Here they shoot during the day, sometimes they shoot the wrong person. And they also shoot buildings were enemies “might” live. This last week we had 8 shootings, 2 deaths and one gun wound injury. It really sucks, especially after having lived in Japan, where you can basically leave the door open and someone will close it for you. (Not really, but its that level of difference in safety).

        • mr.wiener

          Then it’s time to go Rafferty’s rules on the bastards. Mass round ups, mass trials and public shamings. Any wannabe with a dipshit full body tattoo, gets questioned and his family grilled by the media about why he can’t make an honest living.
          In Taiwan organized crime is so well organized that the bosses frown on any forms of public disorder and the offenders are put in their place.

          • Whaddashack

            I was just reading the article on Csmack about Chengguan beating the stuffing out of the PLA. But I saw another article in the past where the PLA destroyed the Hong Kong triads, or something of that sort.

            I think the organized criminals in Taiwan would suffer a similar fate to their Hong Kong brothers, don’t you?

            Not sure about how it is in Australia though. Was watching the news in WA where the police were powerless against random youth junkies.

          • Butsu

            Probably runts doing this for some kind of initiation to get in. The ones who die are young and so are the killers. Furthermore, no one wants to speak up, because if you say something, you’re next in line for a bullet. Which makes everything harder. Or they simply know the guys doing stuff but when the gang ain’t around they’re just “friends”.
            Also, tattoos don’t really have anything to with crime here.

      • Whaddashack

        Wiener, are you from Melbourne? Are those mafia gangs part of the Cartel or local bikie gangs, the Hell’s Angels, or some random backwater gang? I heard that the Hell’s Angels were very popular with local residents there and can be seen riding their big Harleys. In an all out fight, do you think the Melbourne Police Force can handle those gangs?

        • mr.wiener

          Hard to get serious fire power in Australia, and they’d be mad if they did.

          • Whaddashack

            I guess that’s true since as you put it, Australian gangsters are less competent. But if really threatened, I think the Police Force can handle it, eventually.

            I personally feel the Abu Sayyaf gang is the most frightening and dangerous by far. But when it comes to actual fire power, then I think it’s MS13. In terms of reputation, then it’s probably the yakuza/triads.

          • acc

            maybe u have not heard of brothers 4 life and notorious.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organised_crime_in_Australia

      • comacheros

        underbelly

        • mr.wiener

          That’s the one, thanks.

  • commander

    Homrgrown ganster-themed movies had a huge popularity in South Korea not because popular admiration for gang violence and debauchery life but because huge curisority about what little knowned underground life looks like.

    Thugs might be emboldened by films that contain a mixture of truth and embellishment as if they are gorgeous movie stars.

    But if they break a tacit rule of staying out of ordinary people’s life to use intimidation and violence against civilians, they will soon face a due share of consequence: the eradication of all criminal organizations in a coordinated roundup operation.

    That will teach gansters overstepping the red line that they are just parasites living off those who making a living on their own.

    • lasolitaria

      “the eradication of all criminal organizations in a coordinated roundup operation”.

      Yeah, because that hasn’t been tried a thousand times anywhere else before.

  • PixelPulse

    Compare to some of the things Ive seen/read about gang war in other countries, this looks like two kids fighting over a yo mama joke. I guess its a blessing that its not very serious.

  • terriblemovie

    Gangsters = professional parasites.

    Its a good thing Park Chung Hee kicked the shit out of the Korean mafia. Korean gangs have been reduced to tiny gatherings for high school drop outs and jobless losers. They have no power and are viewed as nothing more then delinquents by the rest of Korean society.

    Go youtube “[Fight]Korea Gangster” and click on the third video. Its hilarious.

  • chris

    thought this was just a summary of a K-drama. its just missing the romance and the complications of how they can’t be together cause the gangster ends up being killed or something like that.

  • Pingback: Gang War Brewing In S Korea | Headline Asia

  • 리키범

    Haha Korea gangsters are the k-pop PG-13 version of the real thing.

  • commander

    The government may have to consider the introduction of special units, like SWAT, in busting organized crime syndicates.

    Actually, the police often find it hard to pursue and nab violent gansters who are not hesitant at killing targets on orders from their boss.

    Armed with knives and clubs, gangsters flout the law by looking down on police officers, which are not not as free as western counterparts in using firearms in dealing with criminals.

    The war declaration against organized crimes, therefore, may need to establish a special unit where members are highly trained against all kinds of crimes, including terrorism, and are equipped more powerful fire powers.

    Its crackdown operation, of course, should be substantiated by concrete eivdence to prevent human rights abuses that civic groups claim will increase due to a strengtend law enforcement power.

    • harvz

      10 years ago the police didn’t play. If you stepped out of line, they would Club you over the head. Now they talk to you, and if that doesn’t work then they just leave. Wtf

      • commander

        I have no idea about what you want to say.

  • justanotherday

    EY EY EY EY YO WUDDUP

  • vonskippy

    Maybe they should declare war on bad haircuts and fat bodies first. What a bunch of fat tubby loons.

    • Guest

      If you ever seen any of these guys in the streets I bet you’d bitch up and walk the other way ..

      • MikeyT

        I have actually seen these guys in Daejeon and i agree with vonskippy, they are a joke!! But then again i am 250lbs no body fat and my whole body is tattooed as well so i actually has this type of supposed bad ass trying to kiss my ass in this bar all night as well as his friends! They kept on asking me ‘What is your job?!! lol….

  • commander

    People tend to remember what they like to do so. And teenagers are no exception. Some troublemaking teenagers aborsb violent, bloody footage from ganster movies. Or driving premium cars by gang bosses might impress their minds.

    But the problem is that they hardly recognize ganster movies end in tragedies, deaths of protagonists and their loved ones in bloody battle or cruel betrayals.

    The best way to nip organized crimes in bud is to prevent younsters from walking into an irreversible path to organized criminal organizations. To that end, education in vices of those crimes that impact not onlt local communities but also criminals themselves should be conducted. The education will be conducive to arousing the awareness for roaming juveniles of how inhumane, despicable violent life is.

    Many gangster members are reported to be in teens, exploited by crime organizations as a cannon fodder, then sent to a prison, and coming out of it, relapsed into another crime in the face of social prejudices against crime offenders.

    In a sense, the number of crimes might be a price of society to pay for its failure to integrate the maeginalized. It is regrettable that those criminals have never known the true happiness of life: self realization and possibly help for others out of compassion toward the disadvantaged.

  • lasolitaria

    Hahaha! Gangs? Down here you’re not even considered a gang, let alone an “organized crime syndicate”, unless you have at least AK-47s.

    • commander

      Unless cruel organized crime organizations in the West which dont cringe at using guns and dealing in narcotics, South Korean ones are considered as grave and serious when they brandish knives and clubs against rival gangs and against civlians.

      So if you see gun possessions as a crucial element in defining crime syndicates, that’s ok. But in South Korea that’s not sufficient condition, which explains why many western visitors are surprised when they learn that South Koreans walk freely at night without safety concerns over gun violence or murder.

      • lasolitaria

        AHAHAHA you couldn’t be more wrong, smartass! Who said anything about “the West”? Your inferiority complex makes you jump to the conclusion that, since I’m “attacking” South Korea, I must be from “the West”, completely unaware that by “down here” I mean Colombia, a country that 1) doesn’t quite fit the definition of what is generally understood as “the West” (hint: it’s not geographical) and 2) has one of the harshest gun bans in the world (the fact that guns are completely outlawed accomplishes nothing here but it’s true nonetheless)

        So Korean gangs “sooo civil, sooo honolable” just because they fight with knives and clubs instead of guns? Bullshit! They call themselves “organized crime”, not “young Korean gentlemen societies for the advancement of fellowship and good manners”. They’re supposed to be BAD, MEAN and VIOLENT and they’re doing a pretty poor job at that (sorry but yelling and giving each other wedgies isn’t the way to go). It’s like a kid who sells cough syrup back in the schoolyard calling himself a “drug dealer” *facepalm*. In conclusion: as far as gangs go, Korean gangs are just lame.

        Assuming that walking freely at night is an expected consequence of a lack of gun violence is a non sequitur. Down here the vast majority of criminals don’t have any guns and people still can’t walk freely at night because they know damn well how much harm a knife can do (and no, knives can’t be outlawed).

        P.S.: you should’ve started with “Unlike” instead of “Unless”.

        • commander

          First, I misspelled while commenting on a smartphone. A correction is made.

          Second, if an act is defined as an organized crime, that’s because persons on organized crime organizations come together to intentionally commit evils. In this regard, all criminal organizations are equally culpable, and you have a point to a degree.

          But what should be noted is the scope of collateral damage from weapons used by gangs. Firarms change the nature of crimes dramatically. Gangs with guns in, as you cited, a Latin American country even challenge the state authority, holding control of a certain area of that country.

          Firarms also embolden gangs to kill civilians without qualms over murders. Innocent casualties would mount when rival gangs are engaged in shooting battles in a tug of war for dominance in an area.

          All these evils, emanting from the possessions of rifles, handguns, automatic guns etc., dont take place in a gun-free South Korea. This is what I want to emphasize.

          Third, Western countries have tolerable stances on gun ownership. In light of a Western colonial invasion of Latin America in history, rampant gun violence in the region is attributable partly to Western countries as they left a messy legacy there.

          • lasolitaria

            Wise words, eh? You even provide an explanation for LA’s “rampant gun violence” when it’s painfully obvious you’ve never been here. By golly, you really are a smartass. This is not the SAT, so for once feel free to say “I don’t know shit about that, the correct answer isn’t in my materials”.

            Now, let’s address your red herring. The issue here’s not firearms, gun violence or gun-free zones but Korean gangs. So come back when you have a reason why Korean gangs aren’t so lame.

          • commander

            Your case, as far as I understand, is that firearms possession is important in defining a gang.

            My pont is that without guns Korean gansters are considered threatening thus fitting the definition of a gang. Another point is that South Korea is perferable to other nations in terms of the absence of deadly gun violence.

          • lasolitaria

            My case is that a bunch of shirtless fat guys showing off their tattoos and pulling each others’ hairs hardly deserve such bombastic writing as “organized crime syndicate”, “largest organized crime groups” or “large scale violence”, let alone inspire two blockbusters, when in other parts of the world gangs fight gang wars with long guns and leave many casualties much more serious than a guy in the hospital with some broken bones and a couple bald patches and real crime syndicates with thousands of -sometimes military trained- members engage in true large scale violence, involving heavy firepower, grenades and off-road armored vehicles, to fight over control of criminal activities such as kidnapping and drug/arms/human trafficking (too bad “gambling” isn’t among them) in huge geographic areas. So the whole thing is gay and blown out of proportion. For a people who claim to pride themselves so much in peaceful night walks and lack of guns, Koreans sure seem desperate and willing to go to any extent in order to prove their gangs are the real deal.

          • commander

            You problem with the organized crime definition is you failed to understand that the category of organized crimes differ from country to country.

            If almost all members of a group regard certain types of actions, albeit definitely minor compared to a massive shooting conflict, as falling under the definition of an organized crime, do raising the question about it with a different perspective have any meaning to them? I doubt it.

            The prevaling view in South Korea is that miscounduct featured in the posting can be treated as a kind of organized crime though it might be petty one.

          • lasolitaria

            Bullshit. All South Koreans, even the SK gov, can certainly decide that bar brawls are among the “certain types of actions [...] falling under the definition of an organized crime” but they’re still wrong and make no sense. Here are 2 widely accepted definitions from the UN and Interpol (both of which the ROK is a member of):

            https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/organized-crime/

            http://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas/Organized-crime/Organized-crime

            Notice 2 common points: transnational operation and serious crimes (such as money laundering and drug/arms/human trafficking). Your Korean thugs in this post fall worlds short of any relevant, reliable definition of organized crime.

            Why won’t you admit this was probably just a fit of grandiosity by a bored local newspaper? Is your inferiority complex so acute that you have to prove SK isn’t less than “the West”, even in the bad things, so it can’t be refused the dubious “honor” of having organized crime as fearsome as the Western kind? What a tiresome little smartass you are. Frak off already…

          • commander

            First, technically speaking, the above-mentioned fuss may not be in the definition to lay the legal foundations for punishment of criminals, but in using ordinary usage of the term “organized crimes,” a vast majority of South Koreans see the Korean thugs in question as members of organized crimes, and news media outlets also use the term for reporting.

            Second, using derogatory words in a debate where disagreements or different ideas are fixture reveals the level of civility of a debater.

            Third, in almost every society, there are always language habits that are hard to logically explain.

            The rough use of the term organized crime among South Koreans, though not in line with internationally recognized definitions, is one of those language habits in South Korea, a point that I want to get across to you.

            Fourth, before you accuse someone of having wrong knowledge to boast of your knowledge about a topic, you need to figure out the approprateness of a context where a debate proceeds.

          • lasolitaria

            “fixtures”, “approprateness of a context”, buzz… buzz…? Whatever, Lao Zi. I was not raised in that Eastern way of debating where you can spout any number of fallacious, irrelevant and meaningless statements and you’ll be right as long as you use pompous words, speak in a “civil” manner and keep “face” but in one where the content of your arguments is by far the most important thing. Rest assured that none of my “derogatory words” were random: you deserve them all. Anyway, you just unwittingly admitted Koreans’ use of “organized crime” is arbitrary and makes no sense by any relevant standards. Now you dare play the good ol’ “culture card” whereby a Korean way of doing something is always right in a uniquely Korean way that a non-Korean is incapable of grasping, thus Koreans can never be wrong. No more discussion for you.

          • commander

            You are a fool. The emotionally-charged words once again show how metally retardy you are. Too sad.

            You called it absurd when you read a translation of a Korean news article where the term of a organized crime is loosely used, as most South Koreans use it that way.

            After reading the article, you claimed that usage of the term makes no sense. Although it may not sounds perfectly fit, it’s like that you try to correct people when they were casually talking about an economic recession, saying, “No no, economic recession is defined as a two month straight drop in quarterly GDP so you guys need to use economic slowdown instead of economic recession.” What a frown-upon!

            I have never said that such a view is in line with universially recognized defitions with the aime of promoting cooperation in law enforcement activity or laying the groundwork for criminal charges.

            Anyway it’s sad to see a guy going amok because his view wasnt immediately and unanimously accepted by all.

          • lasolitaria

            “metally retardy”? XD XD XD

            Now you even admitted that these Korean newspapers did use the term loosely and even implied their standards can be considered as low and arbitrary as those of two people in casual conversation. I’m not even talking anymore and you keep proving my point! Dude, I’m seriously: WTF is wrong with you?

          • commander

            Hey lad, careful reading of my comments lets you know that I have never argued the gansters in question match international definitions. My contention is that in South Koreans’ conception, gun possession is not a sine qua non for a definition, and the original article in Korean is not for presentation to any law enforcement agencies but for conveying news to the public, implying no need to fit official recognition.

            In an example countering your argument that gun shooting is the indispensable factor in a gang definition, the term of carnage is often used as a description of a massive shooting, but the question is: How many people will be killed in a shooting rampage to strictly fit the definition of carnage? 10, 100,1000?

            Although legal sentencing for a main culprit requires the precise naming of a gun attack, many English-speaking news media refer to it as carnage, dont it? Why dont you come out to say in that case, “You couldnt be more worng because the term’s usage doesnt accord with rigorous definitions.”

            It’s regrettable to see a man failing to read between lines and insisting his misperceived righteousness, with runaway hubris.

          • commander

            Although it’s a bit obviation from the discussed topic–gun violence in a gang definition, the latest shooting at Navy Yard in Washington reveals that South Korea, where the possession and use of guns are completely banned and unacceptable, are much more secure and safer than some countries where gun violence is something to live with.

            In such a peaceful country it is natural for gun violence to be excluded in a gang definition.

          • lasolitaria

            No. We may say SK is safer than the US but we may not say it’s only because of gun ban. You seem to believe that gun ban means no gun violence but that’s not true. Remember: Mexico (as is the case with many of the world’s most violent countries) has a gun ban as harsh or harsher than S. Korea’s and also has widespread gun violence. Rather than making up words like “obviation” in hopes that they’ll make your arguments appear more valid, you should get your head out of your butt and research your facts (and also look up “non sequitur” while you’re at it).

            Korean gangs would be lame even if they did have guns because their activities are lame and don’t fit any respectable, widely accepted definition. Hell, even countries as peaceful as Japan have meaner gangs. I bet a fight between Swedish women’s studies graduates and Singaporean IT graduates wouldn’t look as lame as Korean gangsters fighting. BY GOLLY, KOREAN GANGS ARE JUST LAME!!!

            P.S.: the fact that you keep contesting my claim that “Korean gangs are lame” proves that either you’re really dumb or have a huge inferiority complex.

          • commander

            Read my comments with your eyes wide open.

            I have never said that the existence of a gun ban law entails the absence of gun violence. You commit a generalization fallacy where a specific case is expanded into a general statement applying to all that kinds of cases.

          • lasolitaria

            Good! Looks like you actually read about fallacies after all. You don’t have to repeat the definition every time you mention a fallacy (or any concept), though, cause unless you’re in a Korean classroom that’s highly irritating.

            “South Korea, where the possession and use of guns is completely banned and unacceptable, is much more secure and safer than some countries where gun violence is something to live with”. This triggers the bullshit detector cause you’re suggesting gun ban is the reason why SK is safer, when in fact it doesn’t work for Brazil, Mexico, Colombia and other countries where there is gun violence. Got it now, my dear Google Translate?

            P.S.: it’s obvious this spin-off of the original argument isn’t going anywhere either but you’re so quaint I just can’t quit (and goodness knows I’m trying).

          • commander

            The assumption that all countries with gun ban legislation have the same consequences is naive.

            The gist of my argument is that South Korea has seen no gun violence as firearm possession is not only outlawed but also a kind of taboo in Confucian country, a country where the pen has been worshipped over the sword. It’s a fact.

            And I am not aruging that other nations with gun prohibition regulations in place is as safe and secure as South Korea as they proscribe gun ownership.

            Logically speaking, gun regulation is not a sufficient condition for the absence of gun violence, and this is a kind of common sense that a middle schooler would discern. But you are saying that I am against the common sense. Wow! I am at a loss.

            It’s a great annoyance to see a person claiming what I have never said as part of my argument.

            Precious advice to you. If you think yourself to be right and consider an interlocutor to be wrong but the opponent holds his own ground, just leave it there. Actually the interlocutor think you to be stubborn.

            But if a third person see this debate, he or she will be a judege of who is more justifiable and persuasive.

            But if you spit out vulgar words at the other debater, as I said earlier, it is a testamnet to showing the degree of your metal maturity.

          • lasolitaria

            “Confucian country, a country where the pen has been worshiped over the sword”.
            Yeah, because the Korean war was (or is, because it isn’t over yet) but an exchange of letters… and the Koreas don’t have the most heavily militarized border in the world… and all the major Confucian countries haven’t been at war with each other or themselves at some point in modern history. So much for Confucianism.and peace.

            In fact, Confucianism isn’t that great. Confucius was this guy full of bullshit who loved the sound of his own voice and the smell of his own farts. He seemed to have something to say about everything and was allowed to rattle on and on before his audience of sheep and enablers because, unfortunately, there were no Greek philosophers around to shut him up and kick his flat ass. He relished in observing the evident and, even worse, share his observations with others, but not without using a lot of pompous meaningless speech and making a big fuss about every single one of his worthless opinions. Oh wait, I think I somehow ended up describing you.

            “The gist of my argument is that South Korea has seen no gun violence as firearm possession is [...] outlawed”. No, it ain’t no gist. I could’ve been but it lost the chance of being the moment you associated S. Korea’s safety and peacefulness with gun ban.

            What debate? I hope you’ve realized there is no debate anymore: I just find all your Ah Q antics adorable.

          • commander

            First, it is well known that the Korean War was effectively a proxiy war between China-backed communist and US-supported democratic forces on a peninsula divided by the spheres of power by the Soviet Union and the United States.

            (According to On China authored by Henry Kissinger, Stalin had the ulterior motive of engaging China in a war to sap China’s growing influence while the Communist behemoth was staying out of any other massive war shortly after the second World War.)

            Second, although Confucianism has been detracted from by those who dont know even the capital C of Confucianism, and distorted by those in power to keep its power citing warped Confucianism, its essence laid the groundwork for an end to long civil wars and for peaceful periods in China and South Korea.

            Third, I dont want to have a talk with a Orientalism-indoctrinated guy any more. Let’s call it quits.

          • lasolitaria

            Whatever. It’s a fact that Confucian countries have, if not worshiped, at least used the sword a lot.

            On behalf of those who hold that all people have the same value, believe that individuals can live as they please rather than as some dead guys said they should, have a healthy distrust of authority, value candidness over “face” and would have fierce disagreement rather than forced harmony, a most sincere “frak you, Confucius”. And on behalf of those who have to put up with finding a pointless, boring, self-satisfied lenghty post of yours on every article, a most sincere “frak you, commander”.

          • commander

            The defunct figure would cetaintly feel lamentable to see a guy attributing what he never said to his remarks or teachings.

            Do you know what Confuianism is? Face saving has never been related to Confucianism even remotely.

            Where is a guy insisting rigorousness of definitions?

          • nitrostat

            you’re really going off topic here… if you’re going to educate him at least stay relevant and don’t be a hypocrite by assuming that he has never visited LA or lived in LA for that matter. ain’t that just the teapot calling the kettle black?

          • lasolitaria

            I’m not trying to “educate” him. I can perfectly assume he’s never been here because his opinions on gun violence in LA are so evidently wrong and misinformed (“tolerable stances on gun ownership”? “Western messy legacy”? WTF?). His assumption, though, that I’m from “the West” (he probably meant the US, which is the most prominent case of gun leniency in the West) only from (cause I provided no other clues on my whereabouts) my using the words “down here” and pointing out that where I live gangs have long guns such as AK-47s is a huuuge jump of logic.

            Now, since the issue isn’t gun violence in LA but whether Korean gangs are lame or badass, I hope you indulge me, my good sir, with some arguments either way.

  • chucky3176

    These Korean gangsters are nothing more than your ordinary neighborhood hoodlums, compared to the very organized Chinese and Vietnamese mobsters that are running amok in immigrant concentrated neighbors in Korea right now. Unlike the Korean gangsters, the mafias from China and Vietnam carry around knives and axes and are not afraid to use them on people that bump into them on streets. So far they’ve escaped Korean public scrutiny because most of their victims have been other immigrants, but it won’t be long before they become firmly rooted into Korean society victimizing victims beyond the migrant communities.

    Korean police have arrested Mr. “Lu”, Mr. “Ding”, and Mr. “J”, all from China who are being wanted in China for murders, racketeering, blackmails, drug trade, and the usual stuff the violent mobs do in China, Japan, and Italy. One of them even bought property in Jeju Island with his drug money, and almost became a South Korean citizen to escape the reaches of Chinese police.

    http://news.hankooki.com/lpage/society/201309/h2013091115114022000.htm

  • A Gawd Dang Mongolian

    NOT THE PC! Use anything else as a weapon, but don’t destroy the PC! That’s someone’s collection of porn your smashing!

  • MikeyT

    I have been in Daejeon many times and its nice city, these so called gangsters look like a bunch of punks and wanna bees! where i come from at least people fight fair and not have 5 guys on one guy! that is what we call cowards!!!! i hope the police crush these little girls!! thats what they are!!!!

  • KamenTeacher

    Real Korean Mafia’s don’t show off or show there tattoo to public…… They only show half… they let people know who are they dealing with……………………..

  • KamenTeacher

    Korea Central Intelligence Agency reported there are 2 Million full time hardcore Korean mafia members in South Korea……………….

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