Celebrities Sucked Into Ilbe Controversy

Since koreaBANG was the first English-language media to report on Ilbe back in October of 2012, the website has grown from an oddity in the typically progressive Korean internet to a potent political force. In the latest incident, some of Korea’s most popular celebrities have rushed to deny that they are Ilbe members after they were recorded using memes common to the website. While controversy over personal attacks on Ilbe users used to be a minor concern for internet flame-wars, the latest allegations have become a country-wide political issue as Busker Busker, Crayon Pop, and actor Ha Seok-jin have all been targeted for their association with Ilbe. As usual, in order to get a complete understanding of this issue, it is important to read the comments below from both a progressive and a conservative source, as the former condemn all ‘Ilbe bugs’ and the latter accuse ‘lefty zombies’ of hypocrisy.

From Star News:

Don’t judge celebrities with the ‘stigma of Ilbe’

“I’m not an Ilbe user!”

‘Ilbe’ is casting a cloud over the entertainment world. Internet humor website Ilbe has become synonymous with right-wing political orientation. Apart from Ilbe users’ behavior, the recent Ilbe controversies caused by entertainers are worrisome.

On July 31st, actor Ha Seok-jin posted a comment on his Twitter about Seong Jae-ki representative of the group ‘Man of Korea’ who had recently recently jumped from a bridge over the Han River. The actor soon got into trouble after he wrote, “As a person who agreed with quite a few points [Seong] has made regardless of his political orientation, I find the accident very regrettable and pray that he will rest in peace. I express my condolences through my worthless SNS [Social Networking Services] account. RIP.” He didn’t directly mention Seong but it was strongly inferred. Some netizens claimed Ha Seok-jin must be an Ilbe user because Seong was an Ilbe user. He clarified he is not an Ilbe user but netizens haven’t stopped attacking him. Ha apologized and deleted his post.

Ha Seok-jin

Ha Seok-jin

Girl group Crayon Pop was engulfed in another Ilbe controversy earlier. On June 22, right after performing on MBC’s ‘Music Core’, they wrote on their Twitter account, “You guys were nomu nomu cool today. You know that, right? I want to copy your fashion. I want to thank our cute fans again. – Way and Choa.” The comment has sparked controversy because ‘nomu nomu’ is known as an expression making fun of deceased former President Roh Mu-hyun. Crayon Pop’s agency Chrome Entertainment’s representative Hwang Hyun-chang clarified, “I didn’t know there was such meaning to it. There are many shortened or compound slang words used on the internet and I thought it was just one of them. If I had known it could cause trouble, I wouldn’t have let them use it.” However, Crayon Pop has been dubbed as ‘Ilbeyon Pop’ [일베용팝].

The tweet by Crayon Pop that started the controversy, note their use of '노무노무'.

The tweet by Crayon Pop that started the controversy, note their use of ‘노무노무’.

Girl Group Secret also got flak for association with Ilbe last May. On May 14, on the SBS radio program ‘Choi Hwa-jeong’s Power Time’, Secret’s member Jeon Hyosung said, “We are a team that respects individuality. We don’t democratize ourselves.’ It was claimed that she used the word ‘democratization’ in the same way the term is used on Ilbe, meaning to oppress a minority. As soon as the controversy erupted, Jeon apologized, saying she did not know there was such a meaning.

Freedom of expression is a constitutional human right. Everyone, including celebrities, has this right. It also applies for political opinions. Some politically oriented entertainers have been called ‘politainers’. What about the Ilbe controversy? No celebrity has claimed they are Ilbe users. They didn’t even express political opinions. They were stigmatized as Ilbe users based on speculations without any direct proof. They were persecuted for the sake of persecution. What if they are Ilbe users? If you disagree with their political stance, you can logically argue with them. Witch-hunting people who deny allegations is merely taking out your misdirected anger. Our history during the past century proves how dangerous prejudgment of opinion can be. Thought policing created numerous victims. The recent Ilbe controversy relating to celebrities is just another ideological witch-hunt. Don’t stigmatize celebrities because of their association with Ilbe’.

Comments from Naver:

anze****:

Regardless of what Ilbe does, those guys wielding the keyboard, wearing the armor of anonymity and trying to be a little hero are being persecuted.

luxu****:

Alex Ferguson left a wise saying. All evils stem from SNS. /tremble

leew****:

Ilbe is cutting up Korea along gender, region and ideological lines.

hyun****:

Ke ke, but Jeon Hyosung’s misuse of the word was something that no average person could ever do so she got caught red-handed right there. I don’t know why the other guys are treated like Ilbe users, but Jeon Hyosung cannot deny it.

fox7****:

Ilbe users, don’t come over to Naver.

kjs9****:

Ilbe was bashed hard here several months ago. What’s scary is that it seems Ilbe is getting gradually more accepted.. There are many Ilbe advocates and many who brush it off.. It’s scary that those who insult dead people and lack any conscience are getting more accepted.

leeb****:

If you are a human, don’t do Ilbe. If you are an Ilbe bug, don’t crawl out into society.

tmdm****:

Crayon Pop and Jeon Hyosung are definitely Ilbe users.

noya****:

The Ilbe controversy is not a matter of ideology. It is a matter of common sense.

brav****:

Honestly, Jeon Hyosung should acknowledge it.

From Chosun Ilbo:

If you like Suzy, you are leftist and if you like Crayon Pop, you are rightist?

“Are you an Ilbe user?” “Idiotic conservative ****” “You support Park Geun-hye, don’t you?”

Recently, a middle school student with the last name of Kim received a barrage of malicious comments for saying he likes girl group ‘Crayon Pop’ on an internet message board. Ilbe has been attacked by many netizens for being a ‘far-right-wing conservative website’. Kim said, “I was taken aback because I couldn’t understand why I should be bashed for political reasons just for liking a girl group.”

‘McCarthyism’ is spreading among teenagers. Depending on which celebrities they like, they can be bashed and labelled as a ‘lefty commie’ or an ‘Ilbe bug’. There are even semi-official rules about how to discriminate floating around on the internet: “If someone particularly dislikes Suzy (member of girl group ‘Miss A’) but likes Crayon Pop, that person is likely to be an Ilbe user.” If someone claims both sides are wrong about the NLL issue, there is a 95% chance for that person to be an Ilbe bug.” “If he looks uncomfortable and can’t make proper eye contact when you call him Ilbe bug, he is 99.8% likely to be an Ilbe bug.”

A satirical image shows a member of Crayon Pop joining riot police in making arrests.

A satirical image shows a member of Crayon Pop joining riot police in making arrests.

Crayon Pop was criticized for their association with Ilbe after it was pointed out that they used the words that are common to Ilbe, such as ‘nomu nomu’ and ‘the limper’ making fun of former President Roh Mu-hyun and Kim Dae-jung. There was also a claim that their agency’s representative posted messages about Ilbe. He explained that he used Ilbe to gather information but suspicion continued. Suzy was targeted because she is from the Jeolla province.

As soon as you use an ‘Ilbe meme word’ once, immediately you become a target for attacks. If you use ‘democratization’ as a word that means to ignore individuality, conform to uniformity or verbally abuse the minority for having different thoughts unlike its original meaning, you are labelled as an Ilbe user. In May, girl group Secret’s Jeon Hyosung got humiliated for saying “we respect individuality so we don’t democratize ourselves” on a radio program. Recently, a translator for the book ‘Middle School: The Worst Years of My Life 2’ used an expression ‘got democratized’ to mean ‘got helplessly victimized’. The translator and his publisher had to apologize. In June, singer Kim Jin-pyo had to write a message of apology that he didn’t know the word had such meaning after saying ‘unji’, which is a meme word that means to fall down. It was originally coined to make fun of former President Roh Mu-hyun’s suicide. A large number of netizens who talk about this issue are teenagers.

The problem expands in this process: 1. Politically irrelevant celebrities are labelled as Ilbe advocates. 2. Teenagers who have observed this sort of online McCarthyism joins the arguments. 3. Without any clear definition of ‘conservative’ and ‘progressive’, they throw names such as ‘conservative idiot’ or ‘lefty commie’. 4. They verbally or even physically abuse their enemies.

A teenager asked this question on Naver Jisik iN [similar to Yahoo! Answers]. “I have a classmate who’s being bullied after he got caught using Ilbe… Why do they bully him just for using Ilbe?” In such cases, the affected parties don’t even know what Ilbe is like and what about Ilbe should be criticized. There is blind social discrimination going on. Experts say it is fueled by SNS because people of any age can easily voice their opinion.

Korean literature professor Cho Gyu-ik at Soongsil University said, “The ideological polarization is being perpetuated throughout every age group in our society. If you oversimplify complicated social phenomena and indulge in us-versus-them thinking, there is less and less diversity and flexibility in thought.”

Comments from Naver:

zber****:

Speaking of lefty zombies’ hypocrisy, they made a big fuss threatening an auction website that they would delete their accounts because the website used Crayon Pop as a commercial model, hah. Doesn’t that speak volumes about them? They apply the left-right politics to everything. What happened during the mad cow disease hoax? Ahn Jae-hwan just said we need to be more prudent and they boycotted him, leading to his business failing. He eventually committed suicide. Nobody took responsibility for that. They still occupy the internet in disguise as a self-proclaimed ‘democratic’ group with the delusional slogan of ‘truth’ and ‘justice’. Is that really ‘justice’?

koki****:

Even if a lefty commie director makes a movie, conservatives don’t boycott it. They just don’t like childish pettiness. Lefty commies are different. If a celebrity suggests hoisting the national flag on the Memorial Day, they hurl curses at the celebrity. They have no qualms about boycotting idols like Crayon Pop who performed with a national flag on their head on the Independence Day. Korean lefty commies’ blood is grey so you never know whose side they are on until war breaks out. It is at least clear that they have the most disgusting double standards, anti-intelligence and anti-democratic nature.

j99c****:

Aren’t those who resort to political factionalism all lefty commies to begin with? Especially those masters of SNS propaganda…professors, novelists and celebrity lefty zombies….

dumo****:

What are you talking about…. What left or right…. Suzy is pretty and Crayon Pop is fun… I hope both do well.

pcst****:

Whenever you go to developed countries in Europe or if you visit America, you see that they don’t impose their thoughts on others. They acknowledge that people with different opinions can live together. Of course, if others violate your rights, you may defend your rights, but I really hate it when some bothersome people try to forcefully impose their thoughts on others.

tobe****:

Those bastards who will have nothing to do with any political power for their entire life are talking too fucking much about politics, ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke.

3run****:

How would people who don’t read Ilbe know what Ilbe is like and what Ilbe meme words are? I would know those words only if I had read Ilbe… I got into Crayon Pop just after watching their TV appearances. The more some self-righteous people blindly try to persecute Crayon Pop fans, the more I become supportive of the group.

xies****:

Some people bashed Jeon Hyosung’s underwear advertisement. They might have been lefty zombie Kimchi bitches. Lefty zombies’ logic is crazy.

xies****:

Ever since the mad cow hoax propaganda, lefty zombies’ IQ level and propaganda tactics have been revealed.

khpr****:

Nuke Dae-jung and pro-North Korean groups are hindering our country’s development and inter-Korean relations even today. They carry out protests that cause social turmoil. They channel dollars to North Korea for their nuclear weapon development… And people in that region [Jeolla-do] cast lopsided votes in every election like communists. That’s why the rest of our citizens have negative perceptions about them.. They have brought it all onto themselves… If we really want to get rid of regionalism, each individual in that province should change their mindset and they should be able to vote for the political parties not associated with their own region for at least 30%.

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  • Brett

    How do non Ilbe users know Ilbe memes unless they themselves also read/participate in Ilbe?

    • commander

      Probably because some subscribers to Ilbe may join the website to dig out sensational stories for news reports after it has been in the media limelight.

    • bigmamat

      Because it has grown and been around long enough for it to seep into the mainstream discourse.

    • MylesL

      The same way back in high school people would use 4chan memes all the time without ever having been on the website. Epic Fail hurrrrr

      • Brett

        Clearly, we didn’t go to the same high school. Nor are we from the same generation. Hurrrr

        • MylesL

          The Epic Fail component was an example, not a retort. Memes are just that, an expression moved through a populous that does not need to know its origins. All those horrible Facebook image macros originated on websites like 4chan and reddit without the majority of its audiences knowing what those websites were.

          • Brett

            Well, I guess it’s even more apparent that I we didn’t go to the same high school.

            I get what you’re saying, but I think this article proposes that the memes are only used in Ilbe, by Ilbe users, and are not common throughout the Korean Internet. Therefore, the people who use and recognize them must read Ilbe themselves.

  • commander

    Freedom of speech shoud be guranteed on the Internet in theory.

    Reality takes a radical turn on that matter, if a celebrity and anonymity is involved.

    Celebrities has prerogatives of wide public recognition and subsequent wealth as long as they remains politically aloof.

    Each and evey political issue has its own fervent advocates and opponents, and if a celebrities is engaged in a political controversy, voluntarily or not, they are forced to undergo ups and downs. Thus the ground rule for celebrities is to stay out of any politically divisive issues unless they want get into politics.

    Second, the Internet, unlike initial expectations at the time of its advent, has become the outlet of grievances in a sense that have not been stated offline

    Anonymous commentators feel joyous when they wield power on the Interent by posting their comments that are often found to have been groundless accusations and are hard to be expressed in the real world.

    These two factors, the publicity from celebrities and misperceived self esteem from posting anonymous allegations online, have catapulted the alleged status of an Ilbe user into the controversy.

    Despite righteous calls for the gurantee of freedom of speech and the cessation of accusing others baselessly, online backbiting and smear campaigns will continue to be the fact of an online life.

  • Ami

    I’m still a little bit confused.
    Is Ilbe like political 4chan for Koreans or something??

    • jasmine A

      yeah from what i’ve heard!

    • s4a

      lol no. Not at all. If anything, 4chan would be dcinside in this analogy.

      It’d be more like if 4chan’s political section (/pol/) had an extreme right wing section which splinters off and creates a separate website centered on views like the US should still be part of the British Empire.

    • EastAsianNationalism

      What’s the big deal?

      So Ilbe is full of young, nationalistic men. Those are the most important people in any society. Let the leftist whiners take over and your national identity and strength will erode away while they pat themselves on the back for being “loving” and “having empathy”.

      • holdingrabbits

        Japan used to be full of young, nationalistic men and Koreans still can’t get over it. Nationalists are people who are too weak or scared to do anything that they can take credit for, so they have to be part of some group think to validate themselves. They can look at something someone else did and say “I did that!” It’s like a mental illness.

        “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” -Samuel Johnson

        • dk2020

          What do you mean Japan used to be? Nationalism is on the rise again due to right wing politics .. It’s easy to be nationalistic in mainly homogeneous conformist countries also .. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being patriotic given Korea’s turbulent history as long as it’s not racist ..

          Ilbe is harmless .. keyboard warriors ..

          • holdingrabbits

            There’s nothing wrong with being patriotic. Being patriotic is different than being nationalistic though. Nationalism is basically saying “My country, right or wrong.” So the Japanese people during the war were just doing what was best for them at the time, and no one else matters, because it’s not a moral position. Nationalism forgets that other people are human beings and has a pre-civilization tribal feel about it. Patriotism=I love my country, Nationalism=I love my country and everyone else can fucking die for all I care.

          • Whaddashack

            Thanks for explaining the difference between patriotism and nationalism. However, I feel most countries in East Asia are what we call harmless nationalists with the probable exception of China, that is if they turned nationalist and facist. I don’t see it happening anytime soon.

            As for Korean nationalism, I don’t think internet nationalism is that serious. Nothing to worry about.

          • holdingrabbits

            I think you’re probably right. I still find it very uncomfortable. When people tell me that they are proud that their country is one race, I wonder “Why the fuck did you learn English? Why the hell would you say that to me?” Nationalistic attitudes reflect badly and ultimately will hurt international relations just because people take note of it. I’ve had lots of friends who left after years and just had a very bad impression of Korea because of the ethnic nationalism stuff.

          • Whaddashack

            I see. That’s true, but Koreans wanting to learn English is because they want to interact with the rest of the world. English is what we see as an international language that connects speakers of Dutch, Italian, Nigerian, Hindi, Korean, Japanese, Viet, Chinese, etc. together.

            It’s an entirely separate thing from nationalism. Nationalism covers multiple aspects, not necessarily always about “One Race”

            No, I don’t consider myself any sort of nationalist.

          • bigmamat

            So why would Koreans think they can interact with the rest of the world and not be effected. That’s what I find so mind boggling about these debates. You have Koreans defending bigotry and xenophobia and misogyny as “culture”. When even the west has it’s share of these, but in the west as well as in the east these attitudes are out dated and anti-modern society. It’s that simple. Get a grip. Just because your crappy social structure is old doesn’t make it right.

          • Whaddashack

            Well, the thing is it’s not my culture since I’m not Korean.
            Personally, I think they are doing very well and should be respected for what they’ve done.

            Bigotry and xenophobia is just part and parcel of life since every country practices it, every culture. It’s hard pointing fingers. I don’t really do it unless someone does it to me first because that would be hypocritical.

            As for misogyny, I don’t think there’s anyone on these blogs that hate it as much as me. There’s just no way I can defend that as part of culture, and I don’t support anyone who does.

          • bigmamat

            I don’t know I understand attitudes toward women a lot better than I do rabid nationalism or even racial prejudice. After all that’s one thing men have in common no matter what color they are or pretty much where they come from, everyone is from a society that repressed women.

          • Whaddashack

            I agree. And I do think that misogyny, abuse and exploitation of women is a far greater problem than nationalism. I’d say with racial prejudice, it would depend on the degree of either. Some complaints of sexism are ridiculous, such as arguing over wearing mini skirts, and some on racism is stupid too (taking jokes way too far).

            But other times, racial prejudice and misogyny go hand in hand and that’s probably the most disturbing of all. What makes it worse is cases like these are always under reported and the victims never get justice either way. We live in a sick, sick world and let’s just say I don’t envy women. To add insult to the injury are the MRAs… a disgusting bunch.

            Are you a woman then? Because if you are, take back what I say. Misogyny and sexual discrimination is even harder on women than on men.

          • bigmamat

            That’s ok. Yeah, I’m a woman and an old one too. That’s probably why I’m so rational and pragmatic about most things. It’s also why I have a hard time not calling things as I see them too. lol Yeah, I’m a bit of a ajumma. lol

          • Whaddashack

            Hahaha. Thanks. I’m a young male which is probably why I have so much trouble controlling impulses sometimes. Of course, I’d like to believe I’m different from my peers, more mature and thoughtful, but it’s as you say, men will be men :)

            I laughed at the ajumma. Don’t get me wrong, I respect ajummas a great deal, ma’am.

          • bigmamat

            My son just turned 22. He’s a big shithead. I’m to blame I spoiled him. I don’t know how old you are but you do sound thoughtful and mature. And don’t worry about controlling your impulses so much, the time to mess up is when you are young. Just make sure you don’t mess up something important enough to ruin your future. One thing I have learned is that you can make a decision in an instant that will change your life forever. Also you can never know enough. Keep stuffing your head with as much knowledge as it will hold. If nothing else it will draw better babes.

          • dk2020

            That’s just plain ignorance .. you’ve got to remember Korea is 98% full Korean and they are the ones that didn’t immigrate or really have lived in a multicultural society where they have to deal with race relations .. most foreigners are temporary also they don’t get Korean citizenship to vote or have political clout .. and what’s the history of most foreigners less than 10 years in the country? That’s why there’s blatant racism like blackface and xenophobia .. doesn’t mean things aren’t changing and progressing slowly with the multicultural policy and politicians like Jasmine Lee.. learning English or being grateful for US support doesn’t really reflect on personal opinions ..

          • holdingrabbits

            I agree, but language is a tricky area. I’ve been learning Korean for quite a while and I know it would be stupid to talk to Koreans about certain subjects. I wouldn’t say something like “You know Hangeul wasn’t regularly used, most people were illiterate, and that Korea didn’t have a real education system until the Japanese enforced it during the occupation.” Even if it’s true, I wouldn’t say it just because it would offend Korean sentiment. Generally, I won’t discuss my view of Korean politics with someone in Korean because I will probably offend them at some point. Things are definitely changing in Korea, but it will take decades. I think you’re right that it’s ignorance in some cases, I just think that’s part of learning a language.

          • parvizr

            That’s because the West is inferior. You congratulate yourself for being tolerant and cosmopolitan, and then your cultural, genes,and identity is irrevocably altered through mixing. In the end, you lose what you have while the rest of the world maintains more of their identities through nationalism, chauvinism, and self-interest.

            This is where whitey tells people he’s morally superior because he’s nice and loving.

            Well guess what, the value of niceness is …nothing.

            I LOVE living in Europe, taking advantage of Western society, and remaining fully loyal to my heritage and home nation. I would never allow the same thing to happen in reverse. Outside of the West, this is how most people think. Deal with that.

            You don’t want to participate in the competition of civilizations? You wanna pretend love fixes tribalism? Go ahead. Don’t go around telling people who know better what they should do.

          • bigmamat

            I agree and to the casual observer they look like hypocrites. However, one thing I have noticed about the Koreans. They are the “borrower” nation. Probably because they’ve been invaded so many times. But for Americans it looks like they borrow our music, borrow our technology, and other aspects of our culture and then pretend that we don’t have an influence over their culture. Every time an American makes an observation about Korean culture we are told that we just don’t understand. But we do understand because Korea is going through some of the very same cultural growing pains that happened in America after the WWII. It’s just happening faster for them and it’s scary as hell.

        • Sillian

          It’s easy to dismiss patriotism when all we have to worry about is what to eat for next dinner in everyday life. What if our country is under direct military threats? What do you think of those soldiers guarding their nations out of patriotism? What do you think of defensive nationalism as opposed to aggressive imperialism?

          • yutoutang

            “What do you think of defensive nationalism as opposed to aggressive imperialism?”

            White people can’t tell the difference. It’s all Hitler to them.

          • Zappa Frank

            yellow people still have to understand that there’s no difference.We had both in our history, and we know that both end in the same, it happened not one time, but many.

          • holdingrabbits

            It’s a hard question because Korea, for example, doesn’t have a lot of people serving in the military out of the love of their country, but because they’re forced to. People who willingly volunteer to defend their countries are fine people, no doubt. I have nothing against patriotic people, but I don’t care for nationalists, and there’s definitely a difference. And let’s be honest, patriotism is not a natural state, it is something that is indoctrinated from childhood. If something is so good about it, then why do we have to trick children into believing it? If it’s so good, then why does the government need to censor the internet and violently suppress protests? Our friend above probably has no idea about the atrocities his government has committed and just blindly falls in line because he’s been brainwashed.

        • yutoutang

          Get that left wing shit out of here. Collectivism is a necessity for the maintenance of strong identities. You want to give up yours, move to America. All Asian countries are still full of young, nationalistic men, which is why we’ll still be around while Westerners shit up their countries with multiculturalism and ‘tolerance’.

          “Empathy is the first refuge of the traitor.”
          -Me

          • holdingrabbits

            Just explain why you need to maintain a “strong identity.” To what end? I’m sorry to tell you, but the West isn’t the region being watered down, it’s your culture. People in the West aren’t suddenly wearing hanboks or using chopsticks all the time because we don’t have a strong national identity or something; Korea, China, and Japan on the other hand can’t get enough of material representations of the west (but as a point of national pride, these countries just copy things from the west instead of purchasing them). We have nationalistic people back home as well, and they’re usually viewed as the least intelligent people. Nationalists ultimately end in bitterness because they can’t do shit to stop change. They’re terrified of the world changing around them and they’re so powerless to do anything about it. Fuck your nationalism. Whatever country you’re from is becoming less and less like the country it used to be every day. That’s just how the world works. Suck it up and dry those tears.

          • Whaddashack

            You started out cool and that was appreciated. And then you made this.

            East Asians need a strong national identity because it’s part of their culture for thousands of years. Sure, you could make the argument that as a race East Asians might be much younger than Caucasians, having evolved after undergoing a late ice age, but culturally, they are ancient. So what’s wrong with preserving this identity and modernizing? I don’t necessarily agree with Europeans not having a strong identity. I can understand if the White American was part Dutch, English, Irish and Polish, i.e. mixed but ethnic Greeks for instance identify as Greeks.

            You stated:
            “Korea, China, and Japan on the other hand can’t get enough of material representations of the west (but as a point of national pride, these countries just copy things from the west instead of purchasing them)”

            You do understand in muttering this that this also makes you nationalistic since this sounds like something an American nationalist or White nationalist would say. Reality, however, is not so simple.

            I could argue that those terrible remakes of Asian horrors/dramas, cosplays, etc. are just copies of Asian things that Whites are too lazy/uncreative to come up with and because they don’t want to buy it. Take Pacific Rim, a “western” homage to Japanese kaiju films. It did sell well in China but flopped in Japan (sales wise). And that’s what I mean by a nationalistic identity sometimes can be good. If you’re so used to saying that everything you produce is shit and ideas from outside is open and good, you’re never going to have enough pride to create and innovate.

            Did you know that Western countries rely a lot on Asian technological input for their products to run in the first place? Not just labor? Did you know that there also have been many inventions and discoveries in East Asia recently that won’t lose to Europe.

            Nationalistic people in countries like America/Canada, etc. can be seen as less intelligent and idiotic because they have nothing to fight for, fully secure and it’s just a case of people with nothing better to do grouping up. However, in Asia, it can be a necessity. When you compare Asian immigrants in the west to some Western immigrants in Asia, you’ll know what I’m talking about.

            If nationalism was so bad in Asia, there would be lynchings of entire Eurotowns in Korea, Japan, China for everytime a local was harassed or raped. Which happens to be too often. We don’t criminally and racially profile foreigners and when we do, the media comes down on us like a ton of bricks.

            So instead of getting so overworked up over such trivial issues, shouldn’t you be thankful that East Asians are no where as vigilante nor “racist” as Westerners and don’t denigrate you just because you look different and worse yet, commit crimes?

            I applaud Koreans for having the courage to look after their own people, to gather as one and warn potential rapist to better watch it. I hope for a day when East Asians drop political correctness and follow the lead of the Japan of the recent past, where we’re not afraid to stamp the troublemakers OUT!!

          • holdingrabbits

            Yeah, I easily lose my temper when talking about this subject because I just have no patience for racially driven politics or those who support them. I’m not saying that Asian countries should forget their heritage, but things are changing and the world is slowly becoming more open and cohesive. So there are people that want to keep antiquated tribal attitudes at the expense of the greater good of ALL humanity and I can’t stand those people. I was raised in America in the south and was told to be very patriotic, but that’s fallen out of fashion in a lot of places and now people are more accepting of the idea of being part of the world instead of our one little chunk of it. My comment about the materialistic representations of the west had more to do with him talking about what a strong identity that his country had, but that’s not entirely the case. You’re right, it’s not that simple. I think you just have to reject the west entirely and all of its advances or you have to accept that it’s now part of the culture here as well and reject the idea that somehow Asian countries are in a bubble unaffected by the west. The media here is generally very biased against foreigners and we are over-represented when talking about crime when in reality we commit far less crimes per capita than the native population. It stems from the fear of the “other” and it’s one of the oldest problems in humanity, but honestly if it wasn’t for the influence (and money/military) of the west, then South Korea would not be the way it is. I am generally against the American military’s presence in Korea, but I acknowledge that it has done good. So when there’s an internationally recognized veteran’s day to celebrate the soldiers who fought in various wars (the Korean war included) it seems strange that the country would celebrate Peppero day instead. It seems like a big “fuck you” to the people who died so that the country could celebrate such a trivial holiday.

          • bigmamat

            Funny but over at Gusts of Popular Feeling they linked to a recent article about English language teachers and how in 5 years there had been 25 arrests. That is 25 arrests out of something like 8000 teachers in the entire country over that period of time. I think 8 of those arrests were for DUI. Big surprise right, getting a DUI in Korea! Just this morning there is a report of several high school students beating a middle school student to death. Of course many of the comments have already begun to blame western influences and the break down of society as the cause. Of course anyone with half a brain and the ability to be honest with themselves won’t buy into this silly argument.

          • chucky3176

            8000 Korean public school ESL teachers hired by the government. There are way more than 30,000 private school teachers in Korea who are hired by private language institutes.

          • chucky3176

            I meant 30,000 ESL teachers in private schools.

          • bigmamat

            Right and the foreigners have to submit to background checks, drug testing and now HIV testing. I find this really hilarious considering Koreans are the biggest consumers of the sex trade in Southeast Asia.

          • chucky3176

            That’s just for F2 Visas for ESL teachers. The vast majority of foreigners are Asians. The checks are not done on them.

          • bigmamat

            Ok then that makes the point even stronger…foreigners don’t commit crimes in Korea than at a greater rate than the natives…

          • chucky3176

            “Ok then that makes the point even stronger”

            Not necessarily. The stats you quoted are for only the public school ESL teachers. The study didn’t include the vast other majority – the private school ESL teachers. My point, the study doesn’t prove anything, either way, when it only takes 8000 people as a sample versus 49 million.

            As for “foreigners”, becareful how you use that term. When the Koreans complain about “foreigner crimes”, they’re really complaining the crimes committed by migrant workers from Asia, not necessarily white ESL teachers. The stats on crimes committed by Asian foreigners are in contention. Official police record show they have low crime, but we know for sure the vast majority of the crimes are against other Asian migrants that don’t get reported to the police. So that’s even inconclusive.

          • bigmamat

            Yeah it’s like that here too. People usually commit their crimes in their own neighborhoods. Other than the U.S. military with their drunken dumb shit I would imagine that a bunch of ESL teachers aren’t a huge risk to society anyway. I understand the backlash against foreigners especially in this economy. Although I think it’s as misguided as our own fear in the U.S. of immigrants. The scary little brown people from the south aren’t actually taking the top jobs in either country.

          • holdingrabbits

            There are way more than 8,000, more like 25-30,000! The thing is that most teachers are already less likely to commit crimes due to having degrees (educated folks usually commit less crimes). We are half as likely per capita to commit a crime than the average native Korean according to stats.

          • bigmamat

            I understand.

          • bigmamat

            I’m wondering about the comment concerning warning potential rapists…just this week I saw an article in a Korean paper that said a sex crime was being reported in S.Korea every 25 minutes…the article chalked it up to more people being willing to report these kind of crimes because of the influence of western values like, individual rights. I’m not sure how they came to that conclusion. Perhaps because even in the west people will report these kind of crimes more often if they think they will be believed. So back to your comment, exactly who are Koreans looking after if someone is assaulting someone sexually every 25 minutes?

          • Whaddashack

            What I mean is that if a girl is raped in Korea, Koreans band together and look out for each other. Older Koreans warn foreigners not to fuck and run (pardon the language). In a dispute between foreigners and Koreans, Koreans would always side with Koreans.

            It’s sort of like Filipinos and how they help out fellow Kabayans. Filipinos support their own people unconditionally.

            Thanks for a rational and civil discussion. You want me to be honest? I’m kind of envious that overall Korea and Japan have a more educated, intelligent set of foreigners than China. Not all the expats in China are bad though and I can understand that more developed countries attract better expats, but some of those guys don’t even try. It’s also China’s fault for setting such low standards, it’s shitty corruption, and making visas so accessible and being so desperate for foreigners.

          • bigmamat

            Yeah I’ve been interested in S.Korea for about a year now. Even to the point of attempting to learn Hangul and some of the language. The main reason I focused on Korea when it’s been more “fashionable” to be interested in Japan is because I recognized so many similarities in our cultures. Believe it or not.

          • Whaddashack

            Wow, that’s cool. If you don’t mind me asking, are you Japanese? I definitely don’t doubt the similarities between Japan and Korea, they are both competitive and close cultures.

          • bigmamat

            No I’m American. I’m white I guess. Most of my background is European. Although my father’s side of the family had some native american. I’m from the south so one of the first similarities I noticed between my world and korea was the conservatism.

          • Whaddashack

            Nice :)

            I think it’s great that you have such a great passion to learn other cultures. That’s the thing about learning different cultures, sometimes, even if we feel they’re very different to our own and exotic, we see the similarities and this becomes exciting. I did some studies on Thai and Malay culture, and the significance of the yellow color on Malay royalty dressings was something new to me.

          • bigmamat

            Well Asia was kind of new ground for me. I had been interested for many years in my own culture and European culture. And you are right Asian culture did at first seem more strange and exotic. Then I noticed some pretty universal things. Everybody likes a good fart joke. Men are skirt chasing emotionally uptight assholes. Women are catty backstabbing hoes. Dads will kill themselves to support their families. Women will give up everything for their kids. Everybody wants to be treated with dignity. I guess we are all human.

          • Ami

            Quoting yourself is lame as hell. Especially since you know: you’re an internet nobody lmao.

            …In less “Me” is an ancient asian philosopher that I don’t know about!!!

        • Whaddashack

          Even if I don’t necessarily agree with your line of thought, I can appreciate how well argued your comment is.

          However, it should be noted that sometimes, a little nationalism can be good for your country. It’s perfectly normal and ok to be who you are and proud of it.

          I agree that Japanese aren’t as aggressively nationalistic as people from China, or the older generation from college age upwards anyway. However, take away pride in your country and what does your country become? These days, you can see a disturbing trend of young Chinese (kids if you may) that are apathetic of their own country’s history, political situation and convinced that they are secretly the bad guy while feeling victimized at the same time. If unchecked, these behaviors can lead to self-loathing, never a good thing. I’ve heard Japanese youth going the opposite spectrum, but have yet to see this in real life.

          The point is I don’t think it’s fair to take away the pride in their own country’s achievements and nationalism for Korea if it means the motivation to make their country stronger is there.

          While more open-minded liberal East Asians is always a positive, you’ll always need some people to adopt harder lines of thought to protect the naive and innocent.

          Bear in mind I don’t know a single “Westerner” or who hasn’t advocated some patriotic, right-wing policies for their own nations and sometime in their life. Many of these are also the first to criticize racism and right-wing policies in East Asia while overlooking the mess in Europe.

          • holdingrabbits

            I don’t have a lot of pride in my country. I’m fine. No self-loathing here. There are very few times when I think “I’m proud of America” or that I’m proud of something because an American did it. If I say something like that, it’s usually a joke, because I really don’t care. If China cures cancer, then great, I am happy someone cured it. If an American does it, then great. It doesn’t matter who did it because someone would have cured cancer and that’s a much bigger deal than some petty sense of national identity. I’m a borderline communist, but not because of some weird government ideology, but because I’m in favor being taken care of. It’s clear to me that this has failed in China and other places so I can’t advocate communism as a system of government, but I do support it as an attitude. So for me, that means I think my government should aid other countries even though they’re not American…and we do, but I’d rather spend our military budget giving countries clean water than blowing them up.

          • bigmamat

            You are actually a democratic socialist. Which scares the hell out the right wing. They don’t want us to be like Europe because then they wouldn’t be able to hold us all hostage with their “libertarian” economic policies.

    • Mason

      probably more like stormfront. 4chan isnt even that bad. i dont even know why people are so scared of it lol.

      • Ami

        I didn’t really mean it as something “scary”.

        I was rather saying “political 4chan meaning “place where people post/discuss news,media and politics in a vulgar way and create/use popular memes”

      • yutoutang

        Because westerners are raised to scream and whine about everything they find “offensive”. Look at the things they talk about in the news, social issues – like those are important?

        If you’re not occasionally offended, you’re probably not having a real conversation.

        • dk2020

          Huh? Have you ever lived in the US? Are you tojung?

          Yeah, like how Korean news is really professional journalism LOL .. it’s so dramatic and over sensational it’s hilarious how they change voices and pixel out faces .. just wait for the sad violin music to start playing ..

        • bigmamat

          Hey all that culture stuff we talk about constantly like gay marriage and abortion is just deflection in a huge con job. It’s to keep our eye off the real ball, how much big business is picking our pockets.

  • takasar1

    “Whenever you go to developed countries in Europe or if you visit America, you see that they don’t impose their thoughts on others”. Lol, what the hell does this idiot know about developed countries? He probably hasn’t even been to Europe

    • bigmamat

      I am thinking that perhaps Ilbe has begun to creep into the “mainstream” of internet discourse. This may be why you are seeing more and more people using these words and not actually having a good understanding of what they really mean. As for America, the polarization between the left and right is extremely high. It has all but paralyzed our government. American celebrities are often criticized for their social and political views. In the U.S. we often argue over the significance of celebrity political endorsements. Are they valid, do they have influence over the general public, that kind of thing. It rarely destroys careers but sometimes it does. It is always dangerous for a celebrity, even in the U.S., to take a controversial political stance. I think the main difference between Korean culture and U.S. culture concerning this issue is our social structure that places more value on individual rights and our governmental guarantee of free speech. So American celebrities feel more free to express themselves politically.

      • takasar1

        i agree with most of this. i just dont get the point of your reply. the fact is that division over political ideology is an even bigger part of life in the west. in korea, because of KJU most of them oppose anything that can be labelled ‘leftist’, this foolish paranoia is extremely aggravating. besides, i didnt understand the point in his/her comment. it could very easily be used to defend illbe or attacking it

        • bigmamat

          I’m sorry did I go off the rails? I was agreeing that people in the west aren’t really any more respectful of each others opinions. But I do think the Ilbe problem with celebrities should be looked at on an individual basis. The girls in Crayon Pop for instance. They are so young so I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that they probably didn’t understand they were using offensive words. Of course there is nothing offensive about democratization when it is used in the proper context. The actor Ha Seok jin is another matter. He didn’t drop some “ilbe word” during a pressured press conference. He posted a fairly long and sympathetic note about the suicide of “Man of Korea” founder. These two incidents to me seem to be completely different. Ha Seok Jin admitted to agreeing with some of the points made by Man of Korea and he is no child. He’s over 30 and very likely knew exactly what he was doing until it reared up and bit him on the ass.

      • commander

        You hit the right head of the nail.

        In South Korea, there is a proverbial saying that public opinions or called Minshim in Korean tend to determine the course of events, although a matter is confined to a person’s privacy.

        On the ideological division front, I think the world as a whole has seen schisms ever widening, fueled by a yawning gap between haves and have nots.

        The chasm is running deep and wide not only between countries and but also within a country.

        What is singluar in South Korea is the criteria for a ideological fault line: approaches to North Korean issues–hawkish or dovish; the differing stances in strenghtening and widen welfare safety net for the underpreviliged.

        You might think the debate over the appropriate degree of welfare benefits is also polarizing other nations, including the US where expanded health care insurance, so called Obamacare, is still controversial.

        But the biggest difference facing Seoul in a welfare debate is that welfare benefits have been lowest among the OECD members, in addition to the highest suicide rates and the longest working hours among them while many conservatives draw on OECD statistics to argue for pro business deregulation and labor movement crackdowns.

        Today’s world can be described with a phrase: Poverty in material prosperity.

  • bigmamat

    Netizens are mean, it’s just that simple. But in some instances they are right. It isn’t true that in “in the west” everyone’s opinion is respected. Yes it’s true you can say what you want as long as you don’t libel someone, but even in the west celebrities can lose their careers over the things they say. Mel Gibson is a perfect example. After many years at the top he is now pretty much kryptonite in Hollywood. Why, because he exposed his hatred of Jewish people. What a dumbass. He knows how many Jewish people are in the entertainment and media industry. Now he’s pretty much a pariah. Netizens are just plain assholes when they expect idols to smile when all the time, or seek permission to date someone. But they aren’t for hounding someone like the actor mentioned in the article, Ha Seok Jin. He sympathizes with “Man of Korea”. Really, so how is it he didn’t think netizens would now consider him a misogynistic asshole? Doesn’t he realize that he’s an actor in Korean dramas, an industry who’s fan base is dominated by women? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you, open mouth insert large male dominated foot. Way to go oppa.

    • EastAsianNationalism

      The West cares too much about who’s being mean or who’s being “hateful”.

      The value of places like 4chan or Ilbe is precisely that it allows people to be anonymous and mean. Yes, it fosters some shitposting, but it’s also a space for realtalk, straight-up opinions without having to worry about your social status or some such bullshit. The world would be a much better place if there were MORE places like Ilbe.

      • bigmamat

        Hey I’m all for shit talking most of the time, and a place like Ilbe doesn’t offend me at all. Mainly because I don’t have anything to lose by taking a stand, right or wrong. Celebrities on the other hand do have a lot to lose when they expose their bigotry and controversial political views.

  • commander

    Anonymous Netizens’ aggresiveness against celebrities who are alleged to be Ilbe users clearly shows how rash it is to jump at a conclusion that the prevalent Interent use will usher in electronically-mediated direct democracy and enhanced parlimentary representation for heretofore underrepresented minority groups.

    This elucidates that advanced tools do not necessarily entail the progress in human behavior, mind and civilities.

    After all, what is lamentable in human history is that following generations repeat trials and errors made by preceding generations.

  • Evenstarz

    Both Naver and Chosun Ilbo are really conservative websites, so I doubt the comments show the wide spectrum of opinions on this “Ilbe contorversy.” It’d be better if you added comments from other forums to balance things out.

    • Sillian

      Web portals like Naver are more like a contested territory for all. There is not much consistency, as seen in this article.

      • Evenstarz

        Yet it’s a known fact that Naver tends to be conservative while Daum and Nate tend to be more liberal.

        • Sillian

          Nate is liberal? That’s new. Nate is so easily ‘industrialized’ by Ilbe as soon as links are posted for ‘fire support’ on Ilbe. It’s not so much about general social liberalism. It’s more about political division between the leftists and the rightists and the leftists aren’t necessarily ‘liberal’.

  • chucky3176

    Crayon Pop are a total embarrassment. Not because of their politics, but because of their atrocious “music”. I wish they go away and I hope they don’t end up representing Korea, like Psy did.

    I know their concept is trying to be different from the usual girl Kpop bands you find in Korea, but man… come on.. how can anyone like their stupid childish song?

    And two of the girls are identical twins. That doesn’t help combat the stereotype that all kpop girls look exactly the same.

    Here’s hoping that this controversy will make them disappear, thus stop the embarrassment for Korea.

    • justanotherone

      shut the fuck up….Crayon pop is fucking awesome BAR BAR BAR BAR BAR BAR BAR

    • commander

      The worth of the girl group will be determined by the market, though the market is not an absolute measure of music’s originality and creativity.

      Experimental attempts, albeit naive or commercially motivated, should not get kicked out by a controversy that is not related to music.

  • KCdude

    DCInside is this country’s equivalent of 4chan minus the porn.

    • justanotherone

      get used to it, Koreans are the most sexually repressed race on the earth

      • KCdude

        I cannot disagree with this statement.

        • Isaac

          KCdude and justanotherone, you guys might be one too. The way you spew garbage in here 24/7.

          • KCdude

            Meh.

          • dk2020

            chobos speak for themselves, ole crab ass uncle chongs ..

  • harvz

    I would hate to be a Korean celebrity. One mistake and you’re done

    • justanotherone

      not to mention they make shit pay and happily take human rights abuse

  • justanotherone

    who give a shit about low earning korean celebrities, a japaneses tv weatherman makes more than Korean girl group members. If they were paid well, why do they need to be prostituted out to someone twice their age?

  • dk2020

    Fuck right wing conservative netizens!! Old ass judgmental Koreans need to shut the fuck up and let musical artists be, so what ilbe is a bunch of sarcastic whiners .. time for the new generation do their thing no matter how different it is as long as it’s creative .. It’s funny gyopos have made a niche in the arts in the US .. being successful chefs, artists, fashion design etc.. I believe the youth is rebelling against the old mindset though .. Kpop needs to evolve and not give a fuck about a squeaky clean image like US pop .. Miley Cyrus for example …

    • yutoutang

      Get a load of this scumbag.

      Without your right wing conservatives your country would simply dissolve into a sea of feel-good pluralism and egalitarian mediocrity. The only reason why Korea, or any other Asian country, is more successful compared to other countries, is because we have aggressive nationalists who defend the nation and strive to outpace our rivals.

      • dk2020

        Buhhh, Koreans need more leaders instead of followers .. how do aggressive nationalists defend the ROK? By whining and blaming foreigners? Yeah right .. time to evolve and adapt that’s how Korea became successful .. the chaebols are still mainly family owned and there is still wealth disparity btw .. globalization is the future, it’s inevitable.. life is not a competition either, success at what cost? There are lots of unhappy Koreans that’s evident by the low birthrate, high suicide. and plastic surgery .. what kind of culture is that?

        • yutoutang

          Did you learn that from your western masters?

          There is no such thing as wealth without aggression and inequality. The very definition of wealth implies someone needs to be poor in relation to your wealth. There are only two kinds of proven economies: 1) A large middle class with a few rich and some poor 2) Everyone is poor

          Without your chaebols and self-interested nationalists, South Korea would still be the latter.

          • dk2020

            Western masters? LMAO .. I’m gyopo dickhead so I think I’m a Westerner also.. You sound like the chaebols are going to war for the country.. Given Korea’s history of getting it’s ass kicked in Vietnam and the Korean war es no bueno homie .. Korea has never been a warmongering nation unlike it’s neighbors ..

            You know the Korean way of business is shady also bottom line its all about making the most profit doing bribes and probably evading taxes, exploiting immigrant workers hows that defending the nation? Since South Korea is such a small country they could share the wealth and quit being greedy ..

          • holdingrabbits

            Something tells me you didn’t study economics.

          • bigmamat

            No he’s kinda right. Korea is even worse than the U.S. Really the only reason we even had a middle class in the U.S. is because we engineered it. With the GI Bill, protection for labor unions, and social security. Now we are seeing a huge degree of wealth disparity brought on by the rolling back of laws that were designed to protect workers and ordinary citizens from the abuse of big business. Actually the entire world is in this crisis. The wealthy and powerful are winning.

          • holdingrabbits

            There are enough resources for everyone in the world to live upper middle class lifestyles. Acceptance of poverty is a losing attitude and makes one complicit in poverty. Greed and selfishness and “identity” are the reasons why we have poverty.

          • bigmamat

            yeah I would agree

          • parvizr

            If everyone was living what we consider upper middle class lifestyles it would stop being defined as upper middle class lifestyles, you idiot. Despite what privileged white kids fantasize about, wealth IS zero sum.

          • holdingrabbits

            I see. Like how if everyone has something to eat then everyone’s starving, or if everyone has running water then no one has running water! If everyone has a house, then everyone’s homeless! It’s like that, right? In a classless society, then “upper middle class” as a label would cease to exist, but since we are not in a classless society, it’s okay to approach it from a hypothetical position and talk about what things WOULD be like for people from OUR current perception…you know, because that’s how human beings tend to talk about things. Since you’re so intelligent, I figure you can understand the difference between the label of upper middle class and the trappings of being upper middle class. Also, I’ve taken the liberty of correcting your punctuation.

            “If everyone was living what we consider (to be) upper middle class lifestyles (,) it would stop being defined as (an) upper middle class lifestyle(), you idiot.” It’s important to remember subject verb agreement when calling people idiots. In the first clause it’s okay, because “everyone” and “lifestyles” agree. Your second clause has some problems, though. You can’t say “it” and “lifestyles” because you just switched from a singular to plural within a few words. You need to consider revising the latter part of your sentence so that you can get the full impact. I would suggest changing it, after the comma you left out, to something like this: “it would stop being defined as an upper middle class lifestyle, you idiot” or “they would stop being defined as upper middle class lifestyles, you idiot.” My professional opinion is that you should use the first version since we rarely talk about “upper middle class lifestyles” and generally perceive it to be one thing. I hope that my tutorial will help you in the future, idiot.

          • parvizr

            That’s an pretty long post for saying you didn’t consider the full social context and won’t admit you were wrong

            >derp derp living well means they’re middle class
            Our poor must be middle class then, they live well compared to people 200 years ago

            >i dun no wut economic class means
            Reflect on your behavior

          • holdingrabbits

            Yep. You win. How foolish of me to suggest that people could live very comfortable lives and equate it with being “upper middle class,” obviously a phrase with no meaning to anyone, not even myself! I don’t know what I was thinking! And one time I said that the sky was blue…I’ll bet you would have been all over that shit!

  • commander

    The stir-up over celebrities’ mem ership of contentious gossipy website Ilbe appears to be amplified too much by entertaining media and some gossipy freaks.

    Although South Korea is among the most connected contries in the world, wired or wireless, the latest fuss only catchses the attention of a fraction of Interent users, especially for those in teens and 20s.

    The ideology-tinted controversy is another example of Interent users’ recklessness shrouded in anonymity and a deeply ingrainded ideological fault line in South Korea.

    Wisdom in secular world should have taught celebrities that fame and money they want is not compatible with candidacy with which they speak about their views on current affairs as the masses just want someone to idioloize not one who present socially conscious viewpoints, which shatters fancies they have about celebrities.

    That’s why top class celebrities successfully remain detached from political issues and provide well crafted images the masses are enthusiastic about.

    The celebrities involved seems to have a long way before learning how to shake off temptations to show their true self to the public and keep their private life shared with only a small circle of their acquaintenances.

    • commander

      Plus, I want KoreaBang to deal with a possible US strike against Syria, a plan that now runs into a number of roadblocks including a split UN security council and the unwillingness of much of American public for a military operation.

      Once the envisioned missile attacks on the Syrian regime materialize, it would have repercussions about issues on North Korea whose chemical stockpiles are reported to are enormous, and as formidable as Pyongyang’s nuclear weapons.

      With the prospect of a resumed six party talks for a denuclearized North Korea not in sight, it is very intriguing whether an American military assault, if get approved by the US Congress in the absense of blessing by the UNSC, could prod North Korea to make concessions to restart the multilateral denuclearization meeting again.

  • chris

    what it all really comes down to…is

    WHO CARES?

  • MaryDtn9

    This comment is about celeb controversies, not comparing talents, so don’t get a Hate-On!
    Celebs like Eminem, Rihanna, Miley, KeS$ha, Avril, Justin, Chris etc are controversial.
    All controversial celebs are right to diss the Media, Paps and Haters. They deserve it.
    Our world improves daily due to controversies. Controversies are medicine for our phobias.
    Our world we live in is way too ugly. It’s never too late to change. DON’T HATE. BE KIND.

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