Students Launch Atheist Clubs to Counter Rising Christianity

South Korean Christians Praying

South Korea has one of the proportionately highest Christian populations in East Asia with just under a third of Koreans identifying themselves as Protestant, Catholic or one of the many other weird and wonderful Christian sub-groups. This has caused tension in recent times, especially between the Christian and Buddhist communities as Buddhists have felt that current president Lee Myung-bak’s very public Christianity has left them unfairly victimised at times. Now, university students (traditionally at the heart of a lot of social change and protest in Korea) have started to respond by setting up “Atheist Clubs” at top Korean universities to try and curb some of the ever-growing evangelicalism in the South.

From Daum:

Atheist clubs gaining ground in university campuses

As religious proselytization increases on university campuses, college atheist clubs are also on the rise. In recent days KAIST (Korean Advanced Institute for Science and Technology) and Seoul National University have seen the formation of atheist clubs and there is a growing call for one at Jungang University as well.

Since the conferment of honorary doctoral degree by KAIST to a founder of an institute that denies evolution and promotes creationism, the debate among students grew apace. One graduate student, Mr Song (24), felt the need for space for communication and sophisticated debates among atheists. His club, “Free Thinkers” waits now for approval by the university for full club status. Song’s objective is to counter pseudo-scientific and irrational claims within KAIST, a premier educational institution in Korea for science and technology. He said “the debates and other academic activities will take the center stage” in his club.

Seoul National University students are also preparing for an atheist club. Industrial engineering student Mr Lee (22) started a blog calling for an atheist society, which has attracted 14 members so far. Lee says that “it seeks to mitigate damages by excessive Christian missionary activities by putting posters and starting debates on the campus”. Mr Park of Jungang University has also seen the intranet postings for atheist gatherings.

Atheist clubs are widespread in American and European campuses. Their webpages declare their goal as “founded upon scientific rationality, atheism, humanism and strives for providing space for the communication”.

Catholic University Emeritus Professor Oh, who writes on the subject of religious sociology says “there seems to be a strong reaction against fanatical proselytizing activities on campus”, adding “the influence by the atheistic evolutionary scientists such as Richard Dawkins or Daniel Dennett is undeniable”.

Comments from Daum:

zzosss:

Atheist is a derogatory term – at least call them natural or rational-thinking people

꿈은높게발은땅에:

Atheists are always willing to abandon their logic in the face of new scientific evidence… but Christians, by faith, deny everything –– even in the face of certain evidence. Believing without seeing, believing without listening… the most obvious case is the president… ke ke ke

Zzz:

The descendants of Dangun [the mythical founder of Korea] belong to the land of Dangun. Dogbraham’s descendent belongs to Dogsrael. Dogbraham’s descendents: fuck off back to Dogsrael!

토토:

Not sure God exists… but Christians are being so annoying that God, in my mind, has disappeared

선택:

As the movement to private wealth using religion grows, evil in society will grow as well. Atheists are checking that kind of movement and it is plenty persuasive. Their god, our god, my god, everyone’s freedom to belief should not trampled on and their mission should not be so in-your-face. Here’s to the day that everyone can learn about God properly and enjoy freedom of belief. Please do not turn into an interest group.

고래요:

If all that happens in the world is the will of God, one will have to acknowledge that wars, famines, massacre, tragedies etc were all committed by God. If such a god exists, we must rid of him. It only goes to show that we are not interested in the suffering of the weak. If you were on the battle grounds of the Vietnam war, and that all wars are caused by God, you will have to accept my opinion.

미친개:

Because of Protestants countless homes have been wrecked. Hate the ancestral worship, hate the ethnic holidays, hate them all

라면머리:

If someone were to ask me what my three wishes would be, my first would be to wipe out all the Protestants. My second is: wiping out the Protestants. My third is… the total eradication of all Protestants

guts:

Protestants are brainless and shameless. Once you have to deal with them your life is ruined

John:

This is a sign of civilization progressing

허공:

There is no true religious man and only those trying to cash in their religion, only merchants of religion. No genuine clergic and only false men of religion are out there.

나무109607:

To be honest, the religious problems at universities are only confined to the Christians… No real need to bad mouth all religion.

Wind_surfing:

I’m always curious – is it that crazies are drawn to Christianity or is it Christianity that drives you crazy?


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  • AttentionWhore

    Look at what s happened since man stopped being certain of God s existence: Technology and evething that makes our lives better were created. So are our lives getting better due to them? no, people hate more, live to work instead of working to live….

    • nalnal

      agree with you 100%… As a christian even if i knew most asian countries are budhist.. i was a bit shocked to see this. oh well. end of times.

      • AttentionWhore

        Its like, society moves toward technology that reduces human effort for everything. It also requires explanation (science) for things. They try to label God as merely a punishment. We have achieved stuff that reduces our effort but these things have only crippled us as human beings.

      • mr. wiener

        The bible is a good book, but I wouldn’t take it as gospel. If it’s the end of days can you leave all your stuff to me? Prefferably at the end of this year, not when the rapture happens :)

    • Bryan Bissell

      Christianity and creationists built most of modern science. We wouldn’t have most of modern civilization without Christianity, including both the scientific and human rights advances. See these links:
      http://www.truth-is-life.org/ScientificEvidence.html (how Christianity pioneered modern science)
      http://www.truth-is-life.org/GoodLifeEvidence.html (how Christianity pioneered most human rights)

      Dr. Hannam has degrees in physics and history from Oxford and London universities and a Ph.D. in the history of science from Cambridge University. He summarizes the view of most scholars in the field this way:
      “Until very recently, almost everyone believed scientific progress has been held back by religion. But today’s historians have realized that, if anything, the popular perception is the opposite of the truth.” http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Science-Versus-Christianity.html?print=1

      David Lindberg, Hilldale Professor Emeritus of the History of Science at the University of Wisconsin states,
      “Despite a developing consensus among scholars that science and Christianity have not been at war, the notion of conflict has refused to die.” David Lindberg and Ronald Numbers: God and Nature–Historical Essays on the Encounter Between Christianity and Science, California 1986, p. 6.

      Steven Shapin, Professor of Sociology at the University of California, San Diego writes,
      “In the late Victorian period it was common to write about the “warfare between science and religion” and to presume that the two bodies of culture must always have been in conflict. However, it is a very long time since these attitudes have been held by historians of science.” The Scientific Revolution, Steven Shapin, Chicago, 1996, p. 195.

      In 2011, Dr. Hannam published, “The Genesis of Science: How the Christian Middle Ages Launched the Scientific Revolution” This and his book “God’s Philosophers: How the Medieval World Laid the Foundations of Modern Science” which is based on his research as well as highly regarded academic work by the world’s leading historians of medieval science such as David Lindberg, Edward Grant, William A Wallace, Alan Debus, John North, Lynn Thorndike, Anneliese Maier and Lynn White. It has been reviewed very positively by major secular organizations:

      “Well-researched and hugely enjoyable”. New Scientist
      http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2010/08/the-great-and-the-quite-good-best-books-of-2009.html

      “It is engaging, informative and I heartily recommend it.” says Ruth Francis, Head of Press for Nature http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2010/10/ruths_reviews_gods_philosopher_1.html.

    • http://gordsellar.com gordsellar

      Uh, that live to work thing? Where do you think it came from? The ideology of the Protestant work ethic is precisely where. (And how many of the people running those companies for which people toil endlessly are Christians?)

      Which is just to say we still haven’t detoxified culturally from the old blight as completely as you suggest.

      And as for hating people more, I’m afraid many of the biggest bigots I’ve met were very religious — in Korea, the majority in fact were loud, obnoxious Protestant Christians who, unlike a lot of clueless non-Protestants, wore their bigotry as a badge of honor.

  • http://www.matthewsawtell.com Matthew A. Sawtell

    Nice to see this happening – given how some of these Baptist Groups (to which I would love to ask, “Who else died and declared you ‘Christian’”?) tend to get way too crazy with everyone else’s lives.

    • MiTaehyeop

      I basically live in Korean society in China (as my fiancee, whom I live with, is Korean) and I am baffled/annoyed at the intrusion into our personal lives. My family, myself included, are all Southern Baptists (the worst kind, depending on who you ask, right?) but they’re all well aware of our situation (being family), but beyond our families there isn’t anyone so thoroughly involved in our lives. But holy crap– if you don’t attend a church here in this tiny Korean society, you’re nearly ostracized. My fiancee is not Christian, she’s basically agnostic though she may say atheist, but I’ll be damned if she isn’t a better Christian in the selflessness aspect than at least half of the “Christian” Koreans here in Tianjin. I thought my hometown’s 15 churches in 1 sq mile was bad, then I went to Korea and felt the same density in 1 sq kilometer…

      • http://www.matthewsawtell.com Matthew A. Sawtell

        Let me guess… high density, but all pretty much competing for followers like a low level Amway salesperson?

        {snort} Seen that sort of foolishness in the States.

        • Jing

          To each their own.

          Not all people are small minded like you. Most Christians didn’t declared themselves Christian until a significant change happened in tyheir lives. I lost a close relativie i’ve mine when i was really young and it was through faith that I chose to be baptist as a Christian.

          I’m not here to judge you Atheists because I know it is your preference. But may i suggest doing something iwth your life than trolling like a homeless hobo on the internet?

    • Jing

      To each their own.

      Not all people are small minded like you. Most Christians didn’t declared themselves Christian until a significant change happened in tyheir lives. I lost a close relativie i’ve mine when i was really young and it was through faith that I chose to be baptist as a Christian.

      I’m not here to judge you Atheists because I know it is your preference. But may i suggest doing something iwth your life than trolling like a homeless hobo on the internet?

  • Ev3nt

    It’s wonderful to see Koreans following this trend from America and Europe. Eastern Philosophies, usually atheistic themselves are far superior to the monotheistic desert death cults of the west and middle east in terms of thought and morality. All Christianity ever did was spread on the continued emotional misery and manipulation of mankind through occupation, war, and poverty for those are the only things that keeping it going. There is no difference between the Dear Lord and Dear Leader.

    • Rick

      Wow, what a nice over simplification of what Christianity TODAY means. It’s as if we’re still living during the wars of the Reformation, I guess. The Judaeo-Christian societies of the USA, Canada, the UK, etc. offer religious tolerance to everyone. The war(s) to which you refer are old history, friend. (Don’t attempt to tell me World War Two was launched by “Christian” Nazis. The Nazis were a secular, socialistic movement with both atheist and pagan adherents. And Stalin’s USSR? militant atheistic Marxists. Together, they murdered 10s of millions.) Want to tell me Far Eastern atheistic Maoism is “far superior” with its millions upon millions of dead? And if we follow your “logic” to its conclusion, you can’t differentiate between an orthodox Christian household in, say, the USA and one in the national gulag called the DPRK? Your moral equivalence is showing. My guess is your not posting this from North Korea.

    • Bryan Bissell

      Ev3nt,
      You seem not to realize that even atheist professors agree that Christianity was responsible for most of the human rights progress in history.

      The atheist Walter Block is Harold E. Wirth Eminent Scholar, Endowed Chair of Economics Loyola University writes,
      “So, which institution is the greatest enemy of human liberty? There can be only one answer: the state in general, and, in particular, the totalitarian version thereof… And, how did they treat religion?…Religion was made into public enemy number one, and its practitioners viciously hunted down.

      Why pick on religion and the family? Because these are the two great competitors – against the state – for allegiance on the part of the people…ll enemies of the overweening state, then, would do well to embrace religion and the family as their friends, whether they are themselves atheists or not, parents or not.

      The main reason religion sticks in the craw of secular leaders is that this institution defines moral authority independently of their power…as a political animal, I warmly embrace this institution(religion). It is a bulwark against totalitarianism. He who wishes to oppose statist depredations cannot do so without the support of religion. Opposition to religion, even if based on intellectual grounds and not intended as a political statement, nevertheless amounts to de facto support of government…This makes it all the more important that the rest of us, atheists or not, support those who worship God. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
      http://www.the-classic-liberal.com/atheist-defense-christianity/

      Sometimes God takes decisive action to put an end to evil. That’s what the destruction of the Canaanites, Assyrians and others was about. See this link for just a surface view of the horrific atrocities that were being BOASTED about by cultures that God condemned to destruction (imagine what they were doing in secret if this is what they were boasting about):
      http://faculty.uml.edu/ethan_Spanier/Teaching/documents/CP6.0AssyrianTorture.pdf

      God is condemned by atheists (and sadly also by some Christians who are victims of deceitful and completely irrational atheist thinking) both when He takes decisive action to end cultures that engage in tortures and atrocities. Then they also condemn Him when he doesn’t intervene and let’s people see the consequences of sin and evil. This is grossly unjust…a d*mned if you do and d*mned if you don’t fallacy of the worst order.

      The fact is that the Christianity pioneered most human rights in history:
      http://www.truth-is-life.org/GoodLifeEvidence.html

      Another fact is that Atheism has ZERO answers for injustice in history. All it can say is, “Tough Luck. Wrong place, Wrong Time and all that jazz. See ya and I wouldn’t wanna be ya. ” It is only God who can bring justice for any injustices that have happened in the past. ONLY GOD.

      • Hongwu Emperor

        Then the Romans came and Israel became dust. sorry, no offense.
        The guys only got their lands back after the ww2… which means a hiatus of over 2.000 years!!

  • Bruce Tutty

    Looking at the comments, I can understand why the Christians went to Korea…it seems to need to learn to be less savage.

  • Bruce Tutty

    And it sounds like most of you don’t know the difference between normal Christians, and whatever you have in Korea.

    Maybe it’s a Korean problems, not a Christian one

    • Wang that!

      LOL who are you kidding!

      North American Christians are the worst!?!?!

      I use to go to a Baptist Church as a kid what was run by Americans… They tried to get me in grade 3 to tell everyone at school they are going to hell and basically told me I am not a good Christian if I do not “witness” to others.

      Fuck that, Fuck them and Fuck you for your simple minded generalization.

      Who the fuck are you and where do you get off claiming to know shit… Fucking twat.

  • burntmetal

    Better atheism than Christianity.

  • Anne

    I wonder as a not so religious person… How seriously do people take the bible? Do they believe dinosaurs exist? How do they deal with the Contradictions, the miscellaneous errors, the sexist mistreatment of woman…Etc in the bible? I mean do they skim read Take in only what’s relevant to them.

    • unirvrsl

      They listen here and there, but are mainly concerned on the insurance of going to heaven and not hell. The funny thing is, they are less moral because of that insurance. Most who are believers have a less than average IQ.

  • Jess

    Hm. This is kind of strange. I guess, in the US, a lot of the college atheist clubs are just a bunch of smug teenagers thinking: “I’m an atheist! That proves that I’m smarter than all those religious sheeple!” You know the type.
    But, from the comments, the reaction towards Christianity here is practically equivalent to the American reception of Islam. Post a report on the number of new mosques in the US over the past ten years, and this is pretty much what I’d expect.

    • James

      There is a particular kind of Protestant-based Christianity that dominates in Korea. If you can imagine the worse kind of US-style aggressive evangelicalism, complete with Holy Rollers and all, you’d be somewhere close. Korea is traditionally Shaman and Buddhist and, whilst some people have taken to Christianity quite readily (largely following economic development as being Christian was often seen as part of the “new”, modernised lifestyle) others have rejected it.

      There were some particularly bad cases a few years ago of South Korea Christians actually going round beheading statues of the Buddha which, unsurprisingly, fuelled tensions somewhat.

      But it’s not all doom and gloom: there are many Christian groups in South Korea who help North Korean defectors through the difficult process of re-settling in the South. However, replacing one ideology with another (ironically, similar in structure) is arguably problematic –– if the ROK government did more to help defectors from the North, the whole thing might not become so “radicalised”.

      • MiTaehyeop

        I just wanted to bump this comment. Really, great response.

        Also, I can’t think of his name now, but there’s one Korean preacher who is now banned from China because he’s been caught so many times sneaking into DPRK and back to China then to Mongolia rescuing refugees. Wish I could recall his name, though.

        • Paul

          It’s worth noting that in Korea, the label “Christian” also tends to exclude Catholics of whom there are many and whose history of humanitarian work on the peninsula is fairly noteworthy.

          James has hit the nail on the head here. Interesting comment about the Buddha statues too; I’ve missed that story, but it might go some way to explaining a few weird things I’ve seen in the countryside.

  • lonetrey

    I feel like there’s a whole lot of hating on Christianity for no reason… resulting in the “atheists” acting just like their adversaries.

    They’re not even real atheists, they’re just idiots who are rebelling what they think is annoying.

    At least if you’re going to stand for something, such as atheism, be sincere about it.

    • Dam

      I agree

    • Nyancat

      I’ve noticed that a lot on message boards such as yahoo news when any article about religion shows up, I’m a catholic but I respect everyone’s right to their own beliefs. What pisses me off is seeing comments calling Christians delusional and such and that atheism is the way to go, sounds a lot like Evangelism to me. I hope that at some time everyone is free to practice their own beliefs without all the vitriol.

      • http://www.matthewsawtell.com Matthew A. Sawtell

        Trouble is, to some of these Baptist sects – you would be considered a ‘Papist’ and not a ‘true beliver’.

        • Nyancat

          sigh, i guess there’s just no pleasing everyone is there…

        • Jing

          What’s you’re point? Have you done something positive in your life that we should care about your overzealous comments against Christians?

      • Am an anonymous boy…

        Comments on message boards make you annoyed? You must get mad a lot… =)
        But seriously… everyone has opinions… who cares what people think… and other cliche thoughts you probably already know… right?

  • Dam

    The level of intolerance is quite disturbing. The post from the netizen calling for the eradication of protestants is very disgusting and upsetting.

    • achan

      i think it is not too unexpected…. spent some time in south korea? the protestant churches there remind me of pre-Reformation Catholic church, lol

      quite unique experience if you ask me :p

      They are not particularly hostile towards Christianity as a whole (say unlike al-Queda), just the annoying ones that are overwhelmingly found in public space

    • http://www.thecapitalinthenorth.blogspot.com jixiang

      Right, and what about Christian fanatics in Korea going around beheading Buddhist statues? That is hardly tolerance. It would be scary if these people became the majority in Korea, and started dominating everyone’s lives. I am glad to see a reaction to this trend.

  • Tiffany

    I’m Christian. New testament Christian. So what. I don’t bother people with it, it’s just my private personal relationship with God. One cannot explain what God is to someone who doesn’t know or would want to know. The whole doctrine behind Christianity is to help the poor and those in need and being good to your neighborhoods.

    In American Christianity has been bastardized and turned into a tool of political manipulation which has led to resentment. People calling themselves Christian being extremely evil ruining the reputation of what Christians are and what Christians are supposed to do.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Smith/100003026114865 John Smith

      There is an atheist saying:

      Religion is like a penis. It’s fine to have one. It’s fine to be proud of it. But please don’t whip it out in public and start waving it around. And don’t try ramming it down other people’s throats, especially the throats of children.

      If religion were kept in people’s homes and churches, there would never be any conflict, and no one would object to theists having their views. All the conflict involving religion results from religious people who behave like rapists and sexual harassers, those who assume they have a right to violate others against their will, those who hate democracy and try to make laws based on their religion..

    • SSDD

      Personal relationship with a God who killed even babies of Egypt? The whole doctrine of christianity is blindly follow Jesus Luke 14:26. You are fine to pick up a God to worship but at least for morality’s sake stop worshipping a god who killed thousands or an apocalyptic deluded person who himself said Matthew 10:34 as Savior.

  • 404 name not found

    Erm isn’t this exactly how christians are towards Muslims?

    • Nyancat

      Not everyone is just some of the fanatical ones, I’ve got tons of muslim friends and they’re awesome.

  • Hawkeye4077

    Christianity is spreading in Asia and will continue. Nothing will stop those belonging to Christ from being made aware of the truth and following Jesus Christ.

    I believe in God and that we are endowed with unalienable rights. If you do not believe in a God, you are worth nothing more than a roach and you are subject to slavery. You live in a reality of your own making and your emotions contradict the claim there’s no God. We all have a conscience so no one has an excuse for doing wrong.

    The belief in evolution of man comes from philosophers infiltrating the scientific establishment many years ago.
    It truly is the belief held by those that do not believe in a God or devil but that the creation story of Genesis is a metaphor.

    They believe man was held prisoner in the garden and that Satan set man free through the gift of intellect when Satan told Eve “You shall not die but shall be as God”. This is the worship of the intellect. The belief that man can conquer nature, conquer man and perfect himself to the point of being a God. This is exactly what Satan wanted, to be God.

    What these people follow is known as the Luciferian philosophy and truly some claim to be Christian publicly.
    They belong to the mystery schools of ancient Babylon.

    Jesus said that He is the way, the truth and the life. The broad way leads to destruction. Man can NEVER be god.

    • James

      I think this is the kind of thing that’s making a lot of people want to set up atheist groups *facepalm*

      • Brett Sanbon

        Seriously…. Where do these kooks come from?

      • Hawkeye4077

        The knowledge of a Creator is in every person. I never dreamed of being a Christian. It was only after weeks of privately praying that I was forever changed by the power of the Holy Spirit. It was no preaching and I follow only Jesus and His apostles. Anything that contradicts one single word of the Holy Bible must be rejected. By following Jesus people will hate us just as they hated Him.
        There will be division in households because we belong to God and they do not. “Follow me and let the dead bury their dead.” There is no one like Jesus and I hope that you are part of the elect. Nothing can stop the will of God.

        • http://Www.koreabang.com James

          Oh dear oh dear…

          • mr. wiener

            My favorite rapture story:
            Police in the US found a naked woman injured by the side of the road next to her car. Taking her to hospital she wasn’t talking about being raped, but raving about the rapture [the time at the end of days when all pure souls ascend to heaven].
            It turns out some college students had bought a number a of blow up dolls for a frat party and filled them with helium so they would float. They had put the dolls in the back of a pick-up ,but as they were driving down the highway the tarp on the back came loose and the dolls began to float away. The lady in the car behind [a fervent christian] saw the naked bodies ascending to heaven and assuming the rapture was starting pulled her car over and ran down the road ripping her clothes off ,screaming:”take me Jesus”. She was hit by another car and knocked into a ditch where the police found her.
            Some people see Jesus’ face in a borito , I see breakfast.

        • Lynn

          Oh, my!

    • http://gordsellar.com gordsellar

      Hahaha, not only a ranting religionist, but an ignorant ranting religionist. Silly fundie, thinks evolutionists actually sit around believing things about the Garden of Eden. “Mystery schools of ancient Babylon…” Ha, and Eleusis, no doubt, and perhaps a few Dionysians mixed in, and hey, I saw Zoroaster on the subway yesterday, Line 1, he was walking through the crowd at Shindorim.

      And thinks anyone who thinks different is an insect! Wow… You keep on fighting the good fight, and giving Christians a good name…

      With all our appreciation,
      Your friendly neighborhood cockroach-slave Luciferians

  • Lynn

    I think the reaction to so much evangelism in Korea has to have a response. It is disgusting and ugly, offensive and repugnant. I, as an American, have found Christian evangelism in Korea to open a deep wound and a fundamental, terrible wrong.

  • Bryan Bissell

    Atheism is not a rational philosophy at all. They do use scientific and historical evidence at times and there are are atheists who have done important work in science, yes. But, whenever scientific evidence or historical evidence goes against their beliefs and philosophy, they fight it tooth and nail, far more than Christians have.

    It is Christian and creationists that built the foundations of science. Read references and links here:
    http://www.truth-is-life.org/ScientificEvidence.html

    And Bible faith is based solidly on evidence and always has been.
    http://www.truth-is-life.org/GoodFaithNeedsEvidence.html

    Christians have also frequently changed their views on many topics, based on evidence. The allegation that they don’t change is immature and fiction. They do trust the Bible above establishments of humans, because when the Bible and establishment thinking has conflicted, in nearly every case, evidence has shown the Bible to be right over time. There are sooo many cases of that.
    1) The Bible claimed the universe had a beginning and then expanded when most believed in steady state. The Bible was proven right by Lemaitre and the Big Bang in the early 1900s.
    2) The Bible said life develops from other life, pioneering the law of biogenesis. Pasteur debunked the idea of spontaneous generation, vindicating the Bible again.
    3) In the 1800s, atheists claimed the Hittite empire didn’t exist. But, now there are documentaries on it on the history channel.
    There are 1000s of cases like this.

    • http://www.randi.org Cedric Katesby

      Atheism is not a rational philosophy at all.

      Fail.
      Atheism is really easy to understand.
      Do you believe in magic pixies?
      Oh, you don’t? Well, congratulations. You are an atheist with regards to magic pixies.
      Easy, yeah?
      Let’s try another. Do you believe in Baal?
      Oh, you don’t? Well, congratulations. You are an atheist with regards to Baal.

      We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. ” —Richard Dawkins

      • podunkAR

        The part about all being atheists is actually true in a sense, especially in regards to when Christianity began. The early Christians were persecuted because they were regarded as atheists. The early Christians would not declare that the emperor was a god so they were arrested and killed if they would not recant their faith.

    • http://gordsellar.com gordsellar

      To add to Cedric’s response:

      It is Christian and creationists that built the foundations of science.

      Well, Arabs, pagan Greeks, Jews, and Indians also contributed to the foundations of science, actually. Also, people who adhered to weird beliefs like alchemy. In point of fact, Isaac Newton — who is credited with developing both classical mechanics (physics) and a significant chunk of calculus. He also spent a LOT of time conducting alchemical experiments.

      The fact he did meaningful and very important science does not mean his goofy beliefs in other areas deserve even a whit of credit… not even though they were useful in his developing physical theory. (Occult ideas affected his modeling of gravity very usefully, but that doesn’t make those occult ideas creditable in themselves; though, if your argument were sensible, and we should believe in a supernatural concept because an adherent to it did good science, by now we’d have to believe in all gods, but also in no god, and besides that all kinds of weird occult and supernatural ideas all at once. Clearly a nonsensical position.)

      And Bible faith is based solidly on evidence and always has been.

      What evidence? The Bible is a complex book, mixing mythology, history, religious/legal traditions, poetry, and more. There is evidence for some of the history. Poetry doesn’t require evidence, it’s an art. And if you have solid, incontrovertible, empirical, repeatable evidence for the metaphysical truth claims of the Bible, please, by all means, share. But we all know that you don’t, and nobody else does. You have to take belief on “faith” so this talk of evidence is beyond nonsensical.

      Christians have also frequently changed their views on many topics, based on evidence. The allegation that they don’t change is immature and fiction. They do trust the Bible above establishments of humans, because when the Bible and establishment thinking has conflicted, in nearly every case, evidence has shown the Bible to be right over time. There are sooo many cases of that.

      Actually, you’re right here, though in a twisted sort of way: a lot of the aura of permanence in terms of Christian beliefs is promulgated by Christians themselves, especially clerics. Look at the whole claim of marriage being between a man and a woman: that’s certainly not an ancient Biblical belief, it’s a revision of Biblical morality. (Likewise, the method of getting married: people today would not regard forcing rape victims to marry their assailants as a healthy view of marriage; nor would they be cool with the expectation that a man marry his brother’s widow; nor do we allow rich men harems full of wives. One man-one woman is a fantastical revision of the marriage practices depicted in the Bible, suited to the middle class values of the modern industrialized world as promulgated during England’s colonial expansion.)

      Religionists seem to want to offer a belief system that looks as if it’s been unshakeable and fixed for a long time — tradition, tried-and-true, and so on. This is, undoubtedly, part of the appeal to the proposed theological solutions to human problems: those values are timeless, nay, absolute, rooted in absolute truths nestled in the bosom of the deity, or whatever. In actual fact, Christianity does change, albeit ( in terms of human rights, women’s rights, the rights of the non-adherent) more sluggishly than the secular world; but the folks who make their dough slinging Bible verses would prefer not to highlight that, as it’s bad for business.

      1) The Bible claimed the universe had a beginning and then expanded when most believed in steady state. The Bible was proven right by Lemaitre and the Big Bang in the early 1900s.

      I am sorry but the Bible accounts of creation do not describe “expansion”; the describe nothing, and then something being made from nothing. And, I will add, the ancient world springing into being in seven days flat.

      2) The Bible said life develops from other life, pioneering the law of biogenesis. Pasteur debunked the idea of spontaneous generation, vindicating the Bible again.

      Please cite the Bible passage where you see anything like a description of evolution by natural selection. I hope you’re not arguing that a long list of begats constitutes the development of one species from another on a geological timescale (which, after all, is beyond the 6000-odd year scope of the text you’re talking about).

      3) In the 1800s, atheists claimed the Hittite empire didn’t exist. But, now there are documentaries on it on the history channel.

      Atheists are sometimes wrong on history and science; this is not because they’re atheists, but because they’re humans, and they humans engaged in a field of study where actual incontrovertible falsification can occur — unlike theology. Atheist historians get things wrong because historians of all stripes get things wrong — including Christian ones.

      So that’s not playing fair: historians and scientists are supposed to get things wrong — in fact, a lot of people getting things wrong in a useful way (ie. constrained by proper experimental procedure, etc.) is good because it means we’re falsifying and discarding inaccurate models of the world in favor of better ones.

      Tellingly, in the field of theology, what is in one context presented as a truth claim (such-and-such deity exists, and the afterlife works this way) becomes metaphor when it suits, or is watered down into ecumenical detente: let’s not argue, all our beliefs are different paths to the truth…

      Meanwhile, your pet theory about the Bible teaching evolution — well, Teilhard de Chardin was censured for arguing for evolution, though his was the very model later adopted by the post-Vatican II Church for reconciling evolution with Christianity, not that this campaign of anti-science suppression and silencing even of scientist priests (among many other such anti-science scandals) ever got discussed during my catechism lessons.

  • Jackie

    Christianity is not bad. If you look at country’s that acknowledge the true and living God, you will see their country has been well Blessed. Look at the US. Based on Christian principles. Look at how great the US has been. It’s starting to turn downward due to following away from God. Don’t make that same mistake. Our heavenly father loves everyone. He sent his only son to die for our place. No other religion on earth has someone that died for others. Jesus loves us very much. What is so terrible of living within the law of the 10 commandments?

    • HaakonKL

      The ten commandments that ban freedom of religion, and demands that all shops be closed on the seventh day?

      Those ten commandments?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Smith/100003026114865 John Smith

      Which “god” are you referring to? You’ll have to be a little more specific, not arrogantly assume that everyone knows which particular pile of bullshit you eat from. Given that you say “ten commandments”, I would guess that means you fellate the fictional feces christ and buy the bull of the buybull.

      There have been thousands claimed around the world, and all have equal amount of evidence (read: none) for their existence. When you can prove that one exists through scientific means, you’ll have a valid argument. Until then, the only people who have to obey your religion’s bullshit are those who believe it. Non-members DO NOT have to obey, and any demand that they do is an attempt to create a theocracy, which means you hate democracy.

    • Darren Cohen

      “Based on Christian principles. Look at how great the US has been”

      What ‘Christian principles’ is the US based on? None.

  • Anand

    Christianity is a Corporate religion. The proselytizers have some kind of MBA in religious marketing. Buddha was perhaps the world’s oldest atheists rational thinker and humanist.

  • Mike Choi

    There is a major effort underway to use Korean celebrities (especially K-Pop idols) to spread Christianity in South Korea.
    The primary organization behind the effort is a U.S. organization that is proxy funded by the U.S. government (more specifically, the people who have hijacked the U.S. government).
    Why do U.S. powers have an interest in spreading Christianity in South Korea, especially when they themselves are not Christian?
    Because Christianity has proven to be one of the most effective tools for producing citizens who are easily manipulated and controlled. Citizens who can easily be duped into voting for corrupt people and duped into supporting a wide spectrum of terrible things, such as murderous military invasions.
    These U.S. powers are therefore trying to spread Christianity in each of the countries that they control (or intend to control in the near future).
    Buddhism isn’t very good at producing citizens who are easily duped, so they’re currently trying to replace the Buddhism in South Korea with Christianity.

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/VictimOfBoredom Matt

      lol.

    • SoCalPinoy

      I know which organization you’re referring to. It’s the organization behind Newsong Church (Irvine, CA) and the “3rd culture” movement featuring Carl Choi, Jaeson Ma & friends. I have a relative who’s heavily involved in it. Let me know if that’s the one you’re referring to. I’d be interested in talking with you via E-mail if it is.

      • Mike Choi

        svchoimichael (at) hushmail (dot) com

    • unirvrsl

      So true in regards to control. Religion reminds me of zombie apocalypse movies. Once they turn into zombies there almost is no hope. So that’s when drastic measures are taken by leaders who want to cure this problem. I mean look at the middle east, reform to a neutral free society is impossible over there. Christians don’t want to compare, but brainwashing a mass of people is the same shit, American or non.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Smith/100003026114865 John Smith

    It’s good to know there are a number of Korean university students whose minds are not molested by religious bullshit, but it’s not just atheists who need protection from christian terrorism. When I was there, numerous news items reported vandalism and arson of buddhist temples by christians, and physical assault against them in public.

    Harassment of non-christians BY christians (atheists, agnostics, animists, shamanists, buddhists, cheon do gyo, etc.) was commonplace. Unlike North America or Europe, Korea does not have laws (or does not enforce them) protecting people from religious harassment in the workplace. Employers can get away with forcing employees to attend their cult, firing or intimindating those who don’t. In public schools, which are supposed to be secular, schoolteachers and principals are known to beat students (“corporal punishment” is a laughable term) who don’t belong to their religion and who refuse to participate. I was docked pay by one of my employers for not attending his cult.

    My students and the students of other westerners I worked with were grateful that foreigners DID NOT impose religion in the classroom, glad that we never mentioned it, that we avoided discussing it. Even the foreigners who were fundy christards usually had the decency to keep it to themselves. I had many students tell stories with tear-filled eyes about being beaten, punished and discriminated against by teachers for not “praying” in class (braying like a donkey is more like it).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxW4U-SOqN8

  • http://pathwaytobliss.tumblr.com/ ιиfιиιту

    Hell is real people, only the obidient to Christ will ever enter His Kingdom, only they do the will of God. So repent and seek God.

    • gordsellar

      “Hell is real people”… yes it is, primarily people like you, who sit about proselytizing at everyone they see, and not actually LIVING by the moral code of their ostensible beliefs. I have read enough of the Bible to know that the book constantly, with great force and even rage, rails against the complacent acceptance of poverty and hunger in our world… yet all I see Christians in Korea doing is hanging around subway stations trying to hoodwink passersby into joining their specific little version of the cult.

      If you look at the missionaries who actually popularized Christianity in Korea, though there were problems, at least some of them were doing something to make like better for this society: building, equipping, and staffing hospitals, orphanages, and universities. That impressed Korean people and attracted them to those religions; too bad they seem to have forgotten all about that. Doing the will of God? Do you really think this ostensible creator of the universe wants people to stand outside Yeongdeungpo station singing horrible Gospel-song karaoke so loudly it hurts the ears of every passerby and gives God-worshipping a bad name? Because that, dear INFINITY, is the public face of Protestant Christianity in Korea.

      If your petty, small-minded god is actually that much of a jerk — so intent on being worshipped and praised by a bunch of souped-up chimps on a rock floating through space that he’ll consign the vast majority of them to endless eternal suffering so ensure that some ranting and raving minority do so, and will treat favorably people who sign up for one or another little cult and ignore the fact they don’t even do good works — then I for one would never want to go this Paradise of which you speak: it’d be full of intolerant, ignorant morons like you, singing mediocre, monophonic songs of lukewarm, thoughtless praise out of tune like they did every Sunday of their empty, miserable, pointless little lives.

  • soneXshikshin

    I am an atheist…and I can’t stand religious facebook groups

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  • unirvrsl

    I’m Korean and have lost a friend because of his contradictory beliefs. When I first meet him, his personality, life style and conversations lead me to believe he was not religious at all. Boy was I wrong. When asked if he was religious, he defended his christian beliefs like a scared little boy. I’ve ran into this many times, where one does not live a christian lifestyle, but as soon as their belief is questioned, they speak as if Jesus himself is listening in. Fear of going to hell is just laughable, crazy & selfish.

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