Japan Loosens Shackles on Pacifist Constitution, Netizens React

Article from Yonhap News:

Paving the way for collective defense with cabinet approval, Japan can fight overseas wars

Marking the 60th anniversary of the Japan Self Defense Force (SDF), the Japanese cabinet endorses a fresh reinterpretation of the US-imposed pacifist constitution.

Sixty nine years after Japan’s defeat in WWII, Japan opens the way for staging wars; Japan’s PM Abe pledges to not become a country that initiates wars.

Abe announcing the cabinet decision to allow the the right to exercise collective self defense at a press conference on July 1st.

Prime Minister Abe of Japan is announcing a cabinet decision to allow the exercise of the right to collective self defense at a press conference held in his prime minister office on July 1st (local time).

On July 1st marking the 60th anniversary of the creation of its Self Defense Force (SDF), Japan has decided to transform itself into a country capable of fighting war by adopting new reinterpretations of its pacifist constitution.

In a cabinet meeting held in the afternoon at the Prime Minister’s official residence, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan approved a resolution that endorses the exercise of collective self defense when certain conditions are fulfilled.

The right to collective defense is the ability of a country to mount counterattacks against an attacking country when the country deems an attack on an ally to be an attack on itself.

In the resolution, the Japanese government states, “when an armed attack against a country having a close relationship with Japan poses an existential threat to Japan, and clearly imperils the lives of Japanese people, their freedom and their right to the pursuit of happiness, using military force, when other alternatives are not available, is constitutionally acknowledged as collective defense.”

The latest move by Abe’s cabinet marks a change in conventional constitutional interpretation that has remained valid for 33 years, since the interpretation of former Prime Minister Suzuki Zenko made in May 1981, reflected in his statement, “As a sovereign state, Japan has the right to collective defense, but exercising this right is not allowed.”

The constitutional amendment is a significant change from the previous security policy in Japan that proclaims Japan will use military force to only defend itself when it is under attack- an interpretation based on Article 9 of its pacifist constitution that provides for Japan’s renouncement of the use of military force as a means to resolve international conflicts.

The Japanese government stressed that collective self defense will be exercised in a limited way only when specified conditions are met. But observers say that the latest move unleashing Japan’s self-imposed shackles in using military force 69 years after its surrender in WWII will be a major factor in Northeast Asia’s security landscape, depending on responses from neighboring countries.

Watchers also say the Japanese government will face growing criticism for effectively neutralizing the war-renouncing Article 9 of the pacifist constitution not with constitutional amendment, but with a cabinet decision amid opposition from the majority of the Japanese people.

In the resolution passed by the cabinet, “the Japanese government reviews the expeditious dispatch of its SDF in what is called a “grey area situation” that, if goes unchecked, will lead to an armed attack on Japan.” It is also mentioned that the Japanese government will revise law to allow its SDF to offer necessary aids to foreign militaries in a move that scraps the previous classification of SDF operation ranges into rear areas and non-combat zones.

Regarding United Nations peace keeping operations (UNPKO), the cabinet verdict says that law will be altered to permit the use of arms by Japan’s SDF in emergency guarding operations, providing there is consent from the receiving country of a UNPKO force.

The Abe government plans to enact relevant legislation on collective self defense, inclusing SDF, in a special session of the Japanese parliament this autumn.

Japan is expected to modify US-Japan defense cooperation guidelines in consultation with the United States by the end of this year, in order to reflect this latest acknowledgement of collective self defense.

Another prospect is for Article 9 of the pacifist constitution to be amended in view of public sentiment in Japan. This constitutional amendment is one of election campaign promises made by the ruling Liberal Democratic Party (LDP).

Ahead of the landmark cabinet decision, two leaders of the ruling LDP and its coalition partner, the New Komeito Party (NKP), Shinzo Abe and Natsuo Yamaguchi, reached an agreement on the wording of the cabinet resolution.

Having proclaimed itself as “peace party”, the NKP initially remained skeptically cautious with respect to the approval of collective self defense, but reversed its stance toward approval at the end of May.

At a press conference held at the Prime Minister’s residence following the landmark decision, Premier Abe said, “Our nation has walked on the path of peace for 70 years, and with heartfelt reflection on the past, we vow never to stage a war again. Concerns over whether Japan will be embroiled in another war is removed by this cabinet resolution. Our nation will never again make war.”

“Participation from Japan in combat such as the Iraq War or the Gulf War will be inconceivable in the future. What our constitution only allows are self defense measures, and any use of armed forces for the purpose of defending another country will not take place down the road.”

The decision by the Abe cabinet prompted various views from South Korea, China, and the United States.

South Korea’s foreign affairs spokesman Roh Gwang-il said at a regular press briefing, “Our position is that any discussion on collective self defense in Japan should be made under the pacifist spirit of Japan’s constitution in a way that dispels anxiety of neighboring countries over Japan’s historical issues, and contributes to strengthening regional stability and peace. The Repubic of Korea (ROK) can not approve any exercise of Japan’s self collective defense in cases that impact vital interests of our nation without our consent.

China’s foreign affairs spokesperson Hong Lei warned at a regular press briefing just ahead of the announcement of Japan’s cabinet decision that, “(Japan) should deal with relevant matters prudently and should not undermine regional stability and peace.”

Meanwhile, U.S. State Department spokesperson Jen Saki said at a regular briefing on June 30th (local time), “Japan has every right to defend itself in any way it deems necessary.”

Japanese television broadcaster, NHK, has predicted that, “The approval of collective self defense marks the watershed for Japan’s post-war security policy, as the revised law will solidify US-Japan military cooperation and will expand the scope of SDF operation.”

Kyodo News said that “Japan may divert from the spirit of self defense that the pacifist constitution is based on. The three conditions (Attacks on Japan or another country that threaten the existence of Japan, the lives of Japanese people, their freedom, or their pursuit of happiness, etc.) to prevent abuse of the exercise of collective self defense are stated abstractly, so it is hard to draw clear lines at the legitimate exercise of collective self defense.”

A crowd of about 10,000 protesters stage a rally in front of Prime Ministery Abe's residence in Tokyo on the eve of Japan's cabinet decision to approve collective self defense.

A crowd of about 10,000 protesters stage a rally in front of Prime Minister Abe’s residence in Tokyo on the eve of a landmark cabinet decision to approve collective self defense.

Comments from Naver:
fine****:

Ito Hirobumi, Resident General of Korea when Korea was under Japanese colonial rule, probably said he took office in Korea to achieve peace in Northeast Asia? Didn’t he?

line****: [from the thread under fine****’s comment]

The unchanging fact is that Korea, China, Japan, the US or any other country implements policies to serve their own interest. I’m not defending Japan but it is clear that territorial disputes with China must have strongly influenced their decision. You can’t help but hold a stick when a thief breaks into your house.

wp_p****: [from the thread under fine****’s comment]

Are you guys afraid that you will be dragged into war and get killed? If you are afraid, you are supposed to support the US + Japan + 10 countries that approved Japan’s collective self-defense + South Korea containing China and North Korea to suppress warfare, ke ke. Why are you guys so simple-minded? Imagine you are Japanese. You finally got the card from the US and other countries to fight Chicoms destabilizing Asia. Would you blow it all and get a full erection only to get this Kimchi Country? You think like that because you know jack shit about international politics while indulging in a victim complex, tsk tsk.

Let’s say Japan isn’t remorseful for their warmongering past, ke ke ke. Even if they are not remorseful, they are the ching-chang-chong who know very well that they cannot defy the US. What about China? Ke ke ke, they say they want to have close ties with South Korea, but for the past 60 years they have commemorated their participation in the Korean War that prevented unification as an honorable and righteous anti-American war and have controlled North Korea from behind, ke ke. Do you Kimchi Sirs want to get started with three foes surrounding you?


Japan went crazy in the Pacific War and got slapped hard by the US. Do you think they will pull that stunt again? Ke ke ke. Just like Koreans had very superficial knowledge about foreign countries, international relations and treaties and only sucked China’s asshole in pre-modern diplomacy, you guys are making ignorant comments about the Far East in 2014. What a Confucian-Taliban-like way of thinking, ke ke.

gaio****: [from the thread under fine****’s comment]

The country that invaded us isn’t remorseful for their invasions and they are expanding their military strength. Isn’t it natural for us to feel uncomfortable? You should think from Korea’s point of view. If you think from another country’s point of view, that’s pointless. What happened to Georgia and Ukraine who sat back and trusted the so-called international community and the US?

imch****:

This is unbelievable. Our government should make every effort to prevent Japan’s move at all costs, including even the severance of diplomatic relations with them. There is no guarantee that our nation will not suffer the humiliation of another domination by Japan, as it happened in 1910.

jhch****: [from the thread under imch****’s comment]

Severing diplomatic relations?? Are you an elementary school student? I’m the most scared of people like you who are ignorant and talentless but only zealous.

rosa****: [from the thread under imch****’s comment]

The Japs got their invading genes reactivated. Are Koreans gonna get decapitated again…?

hwan****: [from the thread under imch****’s comment]

The United States is in support of Japan’s decision. How could our government do anything about this…? The answer is that we just shut up and beef up our own military power. And we should abolish the Ministry of Women.

kiv4****: [from the thread under imch****’s comment]

I think this is rather good news. Koreans tend to realize what’s going on around them too late. This should wake people up to Japan’s potential threats and make us beef up our own military strength. When will you stop suffering from a victim complex? The world doesn’t care about your victim cosplaying. It is important to overcome the obstacles in this current situation rather than looking at the past. Honestly, I hope Japan officially arms themselves with nukes. Then we will have a reason to have our own nukes, too. I think this is a rather good opportunity.

jiye****: [from the thread under imch****’s comment]

That’s why our country is hopeless. Although Korea is not on par with Japan, Korea has a decent position in the world, but Koreans don’t realize that. An English intellectual once said ignorant people who don’t recognize their own country’s strength live in South Korea.

skyc****: [from the thread under imch****’s comment]

South Korea and Japan go to war against each other? You wouldn’t even want to write a bad fiction like that. But if Japan’s military power begins to overwhelm ours, Dokdo could be in danger.. So we will have to increase our military power.

srtk****: [from the thread under imch****’s comment]

There are some people who don’t understand why Japan’s collective self-defense is a big deal. Hitler took similar steps leading up to World War 2. A war-sanctioned nation tries to get rid of small regulations one by one until they become fully capable of waging war.

rxiv****: [from the thread under imch****’s comment]

Severing diplomatic relations? Ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke ke. What about all the losses and economic crisis it will bring about? Korean Ministry of Foreign Affairs already stepped back and said to Japan, “If that is your will, it can’t be helped. But don’t butt in our own war without our permission!!” Ke ke ke ke.

shak****: [from the thread under imch****’s comment]

In diplomacy, you should calmly assess the reality and make moves instead of emotionally jumping up and down like in Naver comments. Doesn’t it make sense that the US supports Japan’s decision while ignoring Korea where a bunch of lefty commies stage anti-American candlelight protests on a regular basis? Did you forget the politically exploited American tank incident and mad cow disease hoax?

jojk****:

Japan has gone insane. If Japan launches an attack on North Korea citing threats from their missile launches, North Korea will declare war against South Korea and Japan, and the Korean Peninsula will be devastated by war again.

ab21****: [responding to above]

Right on. We need to shake off the restrictions on ballistic missile ranges (that the United States has imposed on us). We have cause to make such a demand to the US. For our own survival, the possession of nuclear weapons may be a necessary evil.

ukjp****: [responding to jojk****]

Someone said a world population of 7 billion is too much and about 4 billion is suitable… Has it just begun?

hill****:

Japanese Self-Defense Forces aren’t some pushovers. They will be threatening.

kjj1****:

I feel uneasy for some reason..

dizi****:

This is a big deal. I think it could be a sign of an upcoming great war. The United States unleashed shackles on Japan. That may lead to another Sino-Japanese war, the first one took place a century ago. Let’s stay alert, Republic of Korea!

heew****:

When I look at what Japan is doing, I can’t understand them, especially compared to Germany, another country responsible for World War II. One thing is for sure. Unlike in the past, if a war between Japan and South Korea happens, it would make both countries losers, and both sides would be in shambles.

Comments from Daum:

YESorNO:

An extreme rightist Japan is the enemy of the Republic of Korea. We should prepare ourselves for war with Japan. The ROK’s military has no meaning if it cannot keep Japan in check. In addition to North Korea, Japan governed by an ultra-right government should be seen as our adversary. With defense policy only focusing on North Korea, we can’t contain Japan’s military power. Compared to Japan’s military, the ROK has placed too much focus on the army, so our air and sea forces are inferior to Japan’s.

순진남:

We need to gear up for war. They will invade the islets of Dokdo. We have to preclude pro-Japanese New Right agents from siding with ultra right-wingers in Japan. Pro-Japanese bastards will betray our nation to become Japan’s stool pigeons. We should be vigilant.

돌고래IQ:

Japan seems to look for a colony (for evacuation) after it’s suffered a nuclear disaster.

Share This Article
Help us maintain a vibrant and dynamic discussion section that is accessible and enjoyable to the majority of our readers. Please review our Comment Policy »
  • Kik

    japanese democracy, where laws can be ‘reinterpreted’ when the people does not approve or want it changed.

  • Boris

    There seems to be some logical posts amongst the ignorant.

    Japan would not attack Korea. There is no need and it is a war where they will have most to lose. Containing China is the main thing. You can see those that follow the news and aren’t blinded by nationalism actually see this. It seems a lot of commenters don’t know or care about the international situation concerning other countries but their own. And even in that, they know very little (and it isn’t just Koreans affected by this, take a look at comments on sites like Yahoo and you get similar response).

    • firebert5

      That is likely their intent at the moment, but if they are successful or things change, their intent is likely to change too.

      • Boris

        That is true for any nation.
        It seems Koreans are worried about Japan landing and taking over Korea as they did before. I highly doubt this will happen. This is one thing the Koreans do not have to worry about.

        • Chucky3176

          With the US influence in Asia waning or out of the way:

          How about a naval/air clash over Dokdo-Takeshima?

          How about Japan striking North Korean facilities without South Korean permission, which in turn makes North Korea attack South Korea?

          Impossible scenarios?

          • Jane

            ‘Impossible scenarios?’

            Yes.

          • nqk123

            an attack on S korea or any countries will cause Japan to lose all credibility and isolated world wide. u think Japan is that s*tupid

          • Chucky3176

            Like how Britain and Argentina went at it in 1982? Or the territorial disputes between China and Japan currently? None of those countries were isolated and their credibility lost, when they clashed at sea.

            There may not be a full blown attack, but territorial disputes between the countries could happen when Japan’s right wing governments become more extreme. The scenario may go like this:

            Korean government starts to develop marine resources surrounding the island. The Japanese government protest and there are loud calls within Japan, by the right wing establishment that glorifies Japan’s past colonial rule over Korea, to stop Korea and “defend” Japan. Under pressure, Japanese PM decides to send their military ship to the area as a protest. Korea sees this as a provocative move, and they send their ships to the same area. Two forces face off on each other and there’s a miscalculated move, and there’s an accidental shooting that turns into a full blown military action over the island’s sea and air. This very similar scenario nearly happened in 2006, when Japan backed off at the last moment, avoiding confrontation. If similar thing happened today, I would question with doubt, if Abe’s government would have backed off like his predecessor.

          • nqk123

            you comparing a military state (Argentina before turning democratic state) to current democratic japan? see what’s happening to Russia right now? Russia have gas and oil and still being isolated bit by bit. what do japan have that can prevent others countries from isolating it. manga and porn?

          • China?

            I doubt that South Korea would be stupid enough to think that they can match Japan in naval power to start anything. Japan could have snatched Dokdo 40 years ago, 20 years ago, today, 20 years or 40 years in the future. But they didn’t and they won’t. Want a peacful solution? Go to ICJ. But South Korea won’t try that as they know that’s a lost case.

          • JasonOnizukafuckingdiepainfull

            die painfully you useless dolt.

          • Chucky3176

            S.Korea can match pound for pound, against Japanese navy.

            http://thediplomat.com/2013/01/the-top-5-navies-of-the-indo-pacific/

            Japan can snatch Dokdo only because there are no S.Korean military presence and it’s only manned by a squadron of coast guards. But it’s another debate if you’re thinking that Japan can get off lightly without a severe fight. The fear is that the blinded Japanese right wing government will miscalculate into thinking that they can.

          • Boris

            How about a naval/air clash over Dokdo-Takeshima?
            – Won’t happen. Even with America’s influence in Asia waning (though I disagree, with China being aggressive, their influance is on the rise), won’t happen. They would not move without knowing their allies have their back.

            How about Japan striking North Korean facilities without South Korean permission, which in turn makes North Korea attack South Korea?

            – Again, same answer as the first.

            I would not say impossible, as Korea attacking her neighbours isn’t impossible. But it is highly unlikely.

          • David

            hmm yea, pretty much impossible scenarios. BTW America is not waning in its influence in Asia. This president (who will be gone in two years) simply does not understand Asia well. We are in the middle of reactivating bases in the Philippines. Despite what many want we are going to be n Asia for a long time.

    • ILoveGoldStandard

      In international politics no one trust each other. S.Korea has a right to be worried.

      • Boris

        But do Korea have to worry about Japan taking over?
        I doubt it.

        • ILoveGoldStandard

          Dokdo.

          • Boris

            Again, doubt it. They don’t make as much noise about it as the Koreans do.

            Hell, most of my Japanese friends didn’t even know about it until I brought it to their attention.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            That doesn’t mean anything. Because the feeling that Japan cannot be relied on does exist. You can’t blame the Koreans for that. And even though Japan don’t make much noise about Dokdo, Japan still not yet want to solve this issue.

          • Boris

            Yes, the feeling is there. They still claim Dokdo. But if you are telling me they will go to war over that, you are crazy. Maybe in a 100 years times, who knows. but right of as of this moment, no.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            Calling me a crazy shows your inability to see this issue from political realism. Political realist will say the danger of war is always lurking in the background of all international politics at any time. So S.Korea should be worried when Japan militarized. I might not surprised if S.Korea end up being allied with China to balance Japan. There is no logic and reason for a certainty that Japan will not do anything bad.

          • David

            Perhaps their track record of not doing anything bad (in a military sense) for 70 years? That is long time and much longer than both Korea and China.

          • Chucky3176

            So who did Korea invade that would be termed “bad” and deemed worse than Japan?

          • China?

            China?

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            China haven’t yet conduct major operations.

          • David

            I see. So what happened in Vietnam was not a major operation?

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            Yes, it was a skirmish if you see it from academic perspective. It is less accurate to call that a major operation than compare to US war on terrorism which obviously a major operation.

          • David

            The war on terror has involved less men and resulted in 5% of the casualties of the Vietnam war (I mean U.S. casualties, the number of Vietnamese on both sides killed is hundreds of times of those in Iraq and Afghanistan killed). Also the cost in adjusted dollars is much less for the war on terror. A skirmish is a single battle. The U.S. was involved in major operations in Vietnam for 10 years. Even though we call it a police action, it was a war.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            It involved less men because military technology the U.S had is different than than 50 years ago. The U.S military budget increase tremendously after the end cold war. This was later increased more after 9/11. Until eventually U.S. military expenditure surpassed that of all other nations in the world combined. Your logic on calculating the U.S war on terror is flaw. The amount of the U.S taxpayer has been waste on these last 10 years is VERY HUGE. Also, you need to look at the result you’ve done at the other side. More non-american civilians may have casualties as a result of the ‘war on terror’ than american soldiers in all wars combined since 1775. This is typical liberal downplaying war. Since liberal would actually say that the only just war is one that promotes human rights.

            Less people = less threats to America

            Right?
            /s

          • David

            I do not understand parts of your argument. How does having more modern technology and less men involved make it a bigger war? The U.S. military budget DECREASED tremendously after the cold war (Clinton took credit for the ‘Peace Dividend’). After 9/11 it increased again because we were at war (duh). Again what does that have to do with whether Vietnam was a war? Saying it is a waste is simply your opinion and again has nothing to do with whether the conflict in Vietnam as a war.

            “Also, you need to look at the result you’ve done at the other side. More non-american civilians may have casualties as a result of the ‘war on terror’ than american soldiers in all wars combined since 1775. This
            is typical liberal downplaying war. Since liberal would actually say that the only just war is one that promotes human rights. Less people = less threats to America
            Right? /s”

            This is mostly incoherent. How does comparing the number of non-American civilians killed to the number of soldiers killed in all American wars mean anything? Is WW II not a real war because most of the Russians that were killed were civilians? I have no idea what you even mean by ‘liberal down playing war’. I am not downplaying any war. I have been to war, I certainly do not need you to tell me about it.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            I’m explaining to you what major operation actually is in logical way. A skirmish is totally different compare to major operations. The real calculation comes from how big the budget they’ve spend, casualties from either or both you and them, and the duration of the battle. This is what really matters in a war.

            “How does having more modern technology and less men involved make it a bigger war?”

            Having more modern technology in warfare means you can create bigger damage to the other side with less human involved in your side. In modern warfare, a size of an army is no longer crucial. Do i need to explain more?

          • David

            Except the number of people killed in the Vietnam war is much higher than the number in Iraq an Afghanistan.

          • David

            I meant Korea has engaged in warfare more recently than Japan, not that it was ‘bad’ in the subjective sense (although some would call sending troops to help America in Vietnam ‘bad’ I personally admired and approved of it). The point is the Japanese people of today, in general (despite the tough talk of a few), are not the people who brutally occupied Korea or tried to conquer Asia in the past. Yes, it is good to remember so we can for signs. But it is time Japan is forced to start paying for and deploying its own national defense. The United States will not leave Korea until it is a united country (or two settled separate countries if that is what the Korean people decide). Even if the modern Japanese were the war mongering fascists of a century ago they know they can not attack Korea with American troops there. And if they wanted to a little piece of paper would not stop them.

          • Chucky3176

            “The point is the Japanese people of today, in general (despite the tough talk of a few), are not the people who brutally occupied Korea or tried to conquer Asia in the past. ”

            They are children of their parents and their grandparents who are proud of what their parents and grandparents did. Japan is not like Germany who learned from their past history so they will not let their radicals lead Germany to repeat the mistakes again. Japan on the other hand, the polls have shown, the right wingers have taken control.

          • I would like a bounty bar

            Right wing? Please show my the right wing policies of the current Japanese government.
            These words and terms get thrown around because they are buzz words. Right wing. Fascist. etc..
            The LDP are about as right wing as Obama is liberal.
            I.E. Bugger all.

          • Black_Plague

            Have you actually been to Japan to make the conclusion that the average Japanese person of the current generation is proud of what the older generation committed in World War 2?

            I certainly didn’t encounter anything like that when I was there back in 07, and this is coming from a Korean.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            What is that “bad” by your definition? When in history Korea and China started a world war? Japan colonized their neighbors and started the world war 2. Even during cold war era many of wars are a proxy battle between the US and USSR over an ideology.

          • David

            Why does it have to be a World War? Do you think Japan knew it would be a World War when they began invading Korea? The world was all for it then. They supported Japan ‘taking the burden’ of forcing its Asian neighbors into the modern era.

            Yes they were proxy wars during the Cold War, does that make them objectively better? I was all in support of Korea sending troops to Vietnam when America was fighting there. But those against it would say they were helping America engage in imperialism (I disagree but it is subjective). As for China, I don’t think you need to look very far to see military invasions and acts of military aggression much more recent than 70 years ago. This is why Hanoi is starting to make gestures of friendship toward America.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            Oh this is a typical case of ‘One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter’. It was 3 years ago specially from the western liberals they crying out loud that Japan should not abolish article 9 and have its own independent military. This just shows many people from the west who support Japan militarization are not altruistic, but hypocrite.

            Btw the World War 2 started when Japan invaded China. When at times the US thought it was better not to have Japan dominance in Asia, since the US have its national interest in Asia too. Now, all these bad-mouthing about China is nothing more than an political motive to contain China by the US. This is pivot to Asia is all about. Bottom line is the US never like any country is able to dominate Asia.

          • Rutim

            > Btw the World War 2 started when Japan invaded China.

            Wow, I want to hear more of your fantastic stories!

          • Black_Plague

            “Btw the World War 2 started when Japan invaded China”

            World War 2 is generally believed to have started when Germany invaded Poland, followed quickly by Britain and France declaring war on the former.

            World Wars are called world wars because they involve great powers and back then, said great powers also had colonial territory overseas that could also be mobilized for conflict. The invasion of China is called the Sino-Japanese War for a reason.

            ” It was 3 years ago specially from the western liberals they crying out loud that Japan should not abolish article 9 and have its own independent military”

            3 years ago, China wasn’t going around intimidating its neighbors, making provocations and outlandish statements, at least not in the same intensity it has been since 2013. Lot of shit happens in 3 years, as far as geopolitics is concerned.

            I’m sure that 3 years ago, very few thought Assad would utilize chemical weapons against his own people, Libya going through another civil war or Iran, Russia and the US being essentially on the same side against ISIS in Iraq.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            Generally it’s complicated. China also was one of the founding member of league of nations(like UN today). There is no true definition of World War. Even today some historian still argue it. Like, when did World War II start? In September 1939, when the Nazis invaded Poland? I’d say no.. it actually started when Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931, or at the very latest when the Japanese invaded China in 1937, because they didn’t stop fighting until 1945. Then again, it’s complicated.

            All of controversies over the past 5 years between China and its neighbors, that its neighbors precipitated almost every one of those conflict. There would be no intimidation if these guys want to sit down and talk. Instead, they enforce a zero sum game diplomacy. Which hold the idea that there is no dispute at first place.

            The fact that the liberals or the west are hypocrites is true. After all, there no such a thing as eternal ally, but only national interest. The western liberals and the neo-conservative are aligned when it comes to their foreign policy. They don’t hold any principle.

          • Rutim

            > Like, when did World War II start? In September 1939, when the Nazis invaded Poland?

            Yes. A ‘world war’ means a war in which various countries around the world take part. European countries had theirs properties or colonies in Asia, Africa and Americas, soon after that US joined the war by proxy for a few years. This is the definition. Other wars are regional. And we witnessed only two big conflicts which employed assets on the global scale until this day. Sino-Japanese war wasn’t a global conflict and it only trigerred US-Japan conflict when US put oil embargo on Japan after US backed up Republic of China with sanctions (US oil took 80-90% of Japanese overall import at the time).

          • Black_Plague

            Rutim has covered the WW definition so I won’t beat the dead horse again. But just to remind you, when the Japanese invaded China in 1937, nobody else was actively fighting on either side. Hence why it’s called the Sino-Japanese war. It’s not rocket science.

            Maybe if China wasn’t you know, rapidly building up its navy and air force, engaging in ridiculous yet hostile rhetoric, trying to claim islands based on shit from centuries ago and ramming the ships of its neighbors, things would be a little calmer.

            Instead, it did all those things and naturally, the only response it gets is a lot of displeasure and anger from its neighbors who’ll naturally feel threatened and proceed to build up their own armed forces as a response.

            “The western liberals and the neo-conservative are aligned when it comes to their foreign policy. They don’t hold any principle.”

            Right, as if China’s foreign policy holds any principles >__> After all, they must be just a misunderstood bunch, right?

          • Chucky3176

            LOL, same could said of Japan. Nationalizing the Senkaku, when they were warned hard not to, revising their history text books, their attempting to use economic weapon against S.Korea to bring down its economy, their politicians and media day after day insulting their neighboring countries with horrible words that would make any people outside of Japan, cringe. Yup Japan is so innocent of everything. Poor misunderstood Japan.

          • Black_Plague

            And this is related to the topic in discussion with @iLoveGoldStandard how? Utterly irrelevant, as far as I see it.

          • Chucky3176

            You’re claiming poor misunderstood innocent Japan, mean old China. I’m just pointing out the double standard. Why is it irrelevant?

          • Rutim

            > Nationalizing the Senkaku, when they were warned hard not to

            A lie.

            > revising their history text books

            What’s the point here? You don’t know what you’re writing about, right?

            > their attempting to use economic weapon against S.Korea to bring down its economy

            A lie.

            > their politicians and media day after day insulting their neighboring countries with horrible words that would make any people outside of Japan

            And another lie which you can’t back up with any facts.

          • David

            Well, I think the bottom line is the only country that is happy about China trying to dominate Asia is China. lol In fact I will go further and say no other country is happy when one country dominates Asia. If Japan DID suddenly become a military superpower (won’t happen) yes, the other countries (probably including the U.S.) would be closer to Korea to counter it. That is called international politics. It is not new or regulated to just the U.S. China does not support North Korea because the Kims are such nice guys or uphold the virtues of the CCP, they do it as a poke in the eye of America.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            Every states in the world at any given time will relentlessly seek power. It is an inevitable part of human nature. That is why in international politic, nation negotiate each other through diplomatic means to maneuver their power. My point is in international politic there is no angel or evil. Every nation is at grey zone. Every nation is out for themselves. That is just how world works.

          • David

            Yes, I think I said that. I also said ‘bad’ in a military sense no diplomatically. Japan ha snot been attacking its neighbors or sending troops overseas to fight for 70 years.

          • Guest

            Just for your information, Japan never “invaded” korea, it was legally annexed with an agreement.

          • David

            LMAO. Just for your information, your full of shit. Would you like me to tell you the NUMBER of times and the years Japan invaded Korea? Even the Japanese government has apologized for the invasion and occupation of Korea. Just because tens of thousands were not killed in 1905, does not mean it was not an invasion.

          • iffe0w0a

            die painfully you fool

          • Boris

            I am not calling you ‘crazy’ literally. You said the feeling that Japan cannot be relied upon is there, which I agree with. Korea has this feeling. It is Korea and China making a big deal about it. With China it is really something else, basically another power they have to deal with when they try to muscle in on other people’s seas/lands. Then I said “But if you are telling me they will go to war over that, you are crazy,” meaning it is absurd and highly unlikely they would go to war over Dokdo.

            And if “Political realist will say the danger of war is always lurking in the background of all international politics at any time,” then Korea are also capable of attacking other nations, such as Japan.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            But Japan making a big deal of its history during WW2. There is always 2 sides in every coin. No one is the good guy in political stage. So you can’t fanboying certain country because it is fit with your worldview.

          • Boris

            Calling me a fanboy shows your inability to see this issue from political realism. – See what I did there?

            There is no fanboying going on. Simply put, the over reaction of the Koreans, though understandable, is stupid – “Oh, noes, we will be attacked again!” forgetting the fact that it is the USA that is letting the shackles loose a little. The same USA protecting the China back commie North from taking over the South.

            This is all about China and containing her, not just for USA’s interests but also those that neighbour China. Korea cosying up to China while Chinese fishermen infringe on their seas and the coastgaurds doing nothing about it should be more of a worry to Korea than what Japan is doing on the orders of its ‘master’.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            You still don’t understand don’t you? Japan is not just blatantly denying its war crimes, but they also have a territorial dispute with S.Korea. While S.Korea & China, conflict is almost non exist.(Sorry but fishermen infringement happens everyday around the world. So it’s not a big deal).

            Being democratic isn’t automatically mean that country has a moral high ground than the ones who isn’t democratic. The reason why i’m saying you are a “fanboy”, because there is this tendency usually the liberals they think S.Korea and Japan is both democratic and ally of the US, so why not bandwagon together against evil undemocratic China.

            You need a reason to contain a big country like China. S.Korea have no reason to contain China. Because of economic benefit. While the U.S see its national interest to contain China because they see China as potential rival to counter the U.S dominance in Asia. Dominance of political, economy, and military.

          • Boris

            Actually you don’t understand.

            I already know there are disputes with Korea (along with China and Russia) about territory. The ones under their control they have kept it and are repelling China from taking one by force. They haven’t done the same to Dokdo as China have done for Senkaku.

            And I didn’t even mention being democratic (maybe you mistook my commie north comment?). You are making a lot of assumptions. First calling me a fanboy and secondly thinking that I think that because South Korea and Japan are both democratic that they should work together. Korea has economical interest and are cosying up to China regarding that and that’s all it is. China will not protect South Korea from an attack from Japan or from North Korea. That will fall to the US, who protect their interests and allies (democratic or not).

            China is flexing its muscles but it isn’t against the USA. It is against weaker smaller nations such as Vietnam and the Philiphines. Both of those will need to side with someone that can out muscle China as they don’t have the resources to do so. So in comes USA. Thanks to China, USA’s role in South-East Asia will expand. USA knows they can’t do it all alone and they will someone else’s help to contain China. Korea is out, and that leaves Japan.

            Anyway, all that is beside the point. Japan (and the USA) loosening of what they can and cannot do militarily is more a response to what China are doing. If China didn’t start claiming other people’s land and water as their own, Abe would have a much harder time justifying doing what he has done and probably wouldn’t have pushed for it. Koreans think that this means Japan will attack them again. It won’t attack them. At least not in the near future. I doubt they will attack in the next 50 years. If they want to look over their shoulder, they should look at China. China props up their enemy (North Korea), steals their resources (if it was just a few fishermen it wouldn’t be an issue, what we have here is a fleet coming in, attacking Korean coastgaurds when they try to stop them from stealing from other people’s land).

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            What started the entire chain of escalation is when one country start to disturb the zero sum preference proposition. When that border were technically under dispute by both sides but it is indisputable by one side.

            If you read history, China saved Korea from Japan’s invasion many times before the U.S even exist. And again, there is no altruism or such a thing as eternal ally. But only national interest. The U.S military bases in S.Korea exist as long as S.Korea wants it.

            A weaker smaller nation is not automatically makes them the victim. This is not to say China is the victim. But Japan, Vietnam and Philippines were the one who precipitate these conflict. Now, these countries refused to negotiate. What you see today, China is throwing its weight as retaliation. So it’s understandable when these countries ask for the U.S help. China will be always the bad guy in this game because China is bigger and perhaps because China is not democratic. Like i said before, there is always a 2 sides on every coin. This is not a concrete black and white kind of affair.

          • Boris

            “f you read history, China saved Korea from Japan’s invasion many times before the U.S even exist. ” – I have. You’d also would have found that such ‘help’ led to the Chinese killing and raping the Koreans – they didn’t discrimante against Japanese or Koreans, and as such these sort of help ending up giving the Koreans another headache. The Korean war isn’t the only reason why the Koreans do not like the Chinese.

            “The U.S military bases in S.Korea exist as long as S.Korea wants it.” – And S.Korea will want them as long as there is a threat from N.Korea which is propped up by China.

            “A weaker smaller nation is not automatically makes them the victim.” – True, it doesn’t.

            “This is not to say China is the victim. But Japan, Vietnam and Philippines were the one who precipitate these conflict.” – Senkaku/Daiyou issue was started by the Chinese. The fact that China are claiming all the sea up to the point were the Philliphines have a beach were you step into the water means you, according to the Chinese, are in Chinese waters. These ‘claims’ by China is a grab for land/water and resource. Nothing else.

            “So it’s understandable when these countries ask for the U.S help.” – And hence the growth of the US presence and indirectly letting Japan’s ‘shackles loose’.

            “China will be always the bad guy in this game because China is bigger and perhaps because China is not democratic.” – China is ‘the bad guy’ here because they are trying to take land from other nations here. The CCP cannot be considered anything else but selfserving. They have whitewashed their own history and then complain about Japan doing the same (and even then it seems to be mixed in Japan with people mostly not caring).

            “Like i said before, there is always a 2 sides on every coin. This is not a concrete black and white kind of affair.” – Not it isn’t. But lets say you are Japan. You are the owners of the Island that China wants. They send in people to try and test you. What do you do?

            From your comments you seem anti-Japan and/or Pro-China. I may be wrong, you may be playing devils advocate. But China does want influance and power. You will be well to remember that China has attacked other nations. There was the war with India, at a time when India was seeking to be China’s friend.

          • ILoveGoldStandard

            I never heard it but i’m,not surprise of that. Since rape is an usual occurrence happened at a wartime. China giving a headache to S.K? No. The N.K did. But during the time of Korean war, it’s hard to pinpoint exactly who is giving headache to whom. However, N.K and S.K should be let to have a peaceful unification without any foreign intervention.

            China doesn’t prop up N.Korea anymore. If you look at the news lately, the evidence is pretty clear. N.K increasingly hostile towards China because of S.K-China relations. Even Japan starts have an eye for N.K in order to contain China and its difficulty with S.K.

            Both sides have their own claims and thinks they owns them. It is disputable. But in reality, the previous status quo ante leaves neither both sides would have a strong de jure claim to the islands.

            That logic is rather silly.The individual possession is never been a larger issue as today. The current tension was started when Ishihara Shintaro proposed buying the islands through public donation. His action sparked the Taiwanese and then Hong Kong “Protect Diaoyutai” NGOs to send boats to the islands.

            Every nation in the world always at some point in time seek power, prestige and security. The U.S is definitely not the only one.

            Again, your blame towards China is bias. You don’t have a better understanding of what’s actually going on. That conflict committed by both sides, If it’s not because of bad leadership of Nehru, even India-Pakistan relations would be really great today. Sino-India relations has been so good so far.

          • Boris

            “However, N.K and S.K should be let to have a peaceful unification without any foreign intervention.” – I agree, but unlikely to happen. The bigger fishes would want something in return, they always do.

            “China doesn’t prop up N.Korea anymore. If you look at the news lately, the evidence is pretty clear. N.K increasingly hostile towards China because of S.K-China relations.” – Actually, China does prop it up but they are getting fed up of dealing with NK’s shit. NK needs China as without it, it is on its own and the regime will collapse in on itself.

            “The current tension was started when Ishihara Shintaro proposed buying the islands through public donation. His action sparked the Taiwanese and then Hong Kong “Protect Diaoyutai” NGOs to send boats to the islands.” – Did that start the current tensions or was it China claiming the islands and then Chinese fishermen (state backed no doubt) started entering the seas and trying to get to the Island that had Ishihara Shintaro proposed buying the islands? Because I thought it was the latter. Your China bias is showing again if you think that what started it all.

            “Again, your blame towards China is bias. You don’t have a better understanding of what’s actually going on. That conflict committed by both sides” – I don’t but you do with your China bias? India at the time had an air force. They could have used it, but didn’t. Confusion on the ground by the Indian troops helped China advance as they were not sure what was going on (government negotiating or to attack or defend). In the long run, it actually strengthened India (as the wars with Pakistan, who thought they could test for weaknesses had shown). India’s mistake in that was thinking they could be friends with China. They are not friends now. Relationship is stable, but India sees China as a rival and is suspicious of it’s activities.

          • guest

            surevad piinarikkalt

          • bobs9459

            what rubbish.

    • Chucky3176

      You sound like as if what you say is written in stone, and it will never deviate from it. You never know what the future holds in 10, 20, 30, 50 years, and how geopolitical scene in Asia can change in a flash. All we know is that Japanese have historical genes of being aggressive militarists. Just because it was dormant for the last 70 years due to their constitution imposed on them by the Americans, which by the way has now been repealed, doesn’t mean that things will continue to go on as they were before.

      But frankly, I don’t give a shit what Japan does at this point. They’re beyond hope and reproach. As for China, they remind me of a forked tongued snake licking at you. Koreans should never trust them.

      • 1029384756

        “All we know is that Japanese have historical genes of being aggressive militarists.”

        Holy fucking shit chucky you are the most delusional person on this website

        • chucky3176

          Who’s more delusional when you’re voting up your own post?

          • 1029384756

            Hmm I don’t know let me see. The guy who thinks militarism is genetic or the guy who clicked an up arrow on his own post.

            I’m gonna go with the former.

      • Rutim

        You wrote the speech for President Xi for his recent visit in South Korea? He blamed Japan about for being aggressive and brought up the still hot Imjin Wars from four centuries ago. But there’s an old wise Korean saying which originated from that time: 왜군은 얼레빗, 명군은 참빗 ;)

        • cantonizi

          BBC telling the west that Pres Xi blaming Japan for starting the Sino-Japanese war in 1937 is wrong. It sounds like China ignited the war when Chinese and invading Japanese troops got into a bloody skirmish on the Marco Polo bridge in China.
          How can Korea and China win in this war of words against Japan with US backing.

          • Rutim

            President Xi isn’t even a president of a country that Japan was fighting in 1937 so I would keep my mouth shut being in his place. And Japanese forces didn’t surrender to PRC but joint Republic of China and US forces in Beijing on 9.9.45 (if I remember the date well). Lately Chinese government made the scene ‘public’ (even though it’s well known outside of China it seems) and instead of RoC and US generals the Japanese surrendered to… surprise!!!

      • Boris

        You are right, we never know what would happen in the future. It could be Korea uniting and then attacking her neighbours for all we know.

        And getting ‘genes’ into question here. When it comes to Japan and you, logic goes out the window.

        • Chucky3176

          Historically speaking, a united Korea never attacked anybody nor had territorial ambitions on lands that don’t belong to them. I am talking about “habits” here, when I say “historical genes”. Japan always had bad habits of attacking Koreans and making them miserable all throughout the history of the two country’s existence. And I don’t believe for one moment that this pattern has changed at all, especially in light of the current right wing shift of the Japanese who now practically think their invasions of Asia throughout history and militarist WWII history is something to be proud of. Sorry, but I have a hard time giving them credibility when they can’t even tell the historical truths.

          • China?

            ‘a united Korea never attacked anybody’

            Nor did Lichtenstein. Who Korea was supposed to attack? China which made them a vasal state? South Korea sent soldiers to Vietnam andd they weren’t too friendly for Vietnam people.

          • Chucky3176

            Oh great, yet another Vietnam War strawman argument. You must be Japanese. I suggest you read the book titled “Vietnam War – A Reporter Through Asian Eyes” by an anti-Vietnam War Japanese reporter named Katsuichi Honda who reported from the fields from 1967 to 1970. He wrote the ROK troops were far more popular with the local population who had direct day to day contact with them, than either the US or the ARVN troops. The Korean troops were more hated by those South Vietnamese who lived far away from the daily contact, in Saigon and in other areas. This is by your own Japanese national reporter who was actually there, not sitting by a computer, typing in with one hand and masturbating with the other. Right Rutim?

          • Boris

            You talked about ‘genes’ before. And now habits. People can give up on bad habits.

            “And I don’t believe for one moment that this pattern has changed at all, especially in light of the current right wing shift of the Japanese who now practically think their invasions of Asia throughout history and militarist WWII history is something to be proud of.” – And how many Japanese people actually support these views in Japan?

            People do vote in people one other things and not just on thing. Afterall, you guys did elect a dictator’s daughter.

            Maybe the Korean’s bad habbit is they want strong rulers who trample on thier rights to rule and abuse them?

          • Black_Plague

            “united Korea never attacked anybody nor had territorial ambitions on lands that don’t belong to them”

            You might want to read a bit more as to why a united Korea never had such intentions. The Joseon dynasty had a lackluster military and remained a vassal state to the Qing for centuries, which kinda makes it all pointless to begin with.

            As for ‘bad’ habits. There have been two incidences of Japan attacking Korea throughout history. The Imjin War and the annexation of Korea itself in the early 20th century, and to a lighter degree, the pirate attacks during the Middle Ages (but certainly aren’t invasions).

            Now let’s look at China, who you seem to think is more reliable than Japan – the Tang Dynasty backstabbed Silla in the back by outright trying to conquer the peninsula after the fall of Baekje and Goguryeo, then you have the two invasions in the early half of the 17th century that made Korea into a vassal state and more recently, their entry into the Korean War which literally ruined the only best chance of reunification.

          • wut

            Oh yea, the imjin war was only an ‘incident’, I mean it only totally devastate the country aye? and some ‘light’ pirate attacks? NOTHING TO SEE HERE!
            And the entry into the Korean war? if that can be classified as a invasion, then the US entry into the war should be classified as an invasion too.

          • Black_Plague

            1. Fine then, ‘occurrences’. Happy there?

            2. The Wokou pirates never succeeded in capitulating large swathes of Korea, and they certainly weren’t a state either + over time, a large portion would grow to be non-Japanese themselves, hence why I termed ‘lighter degree’.

            3. The US + many other UN nations’ entry actually would have reunified the peninsula with communism as a political power knocked off decisively. China’s entry on the other hand, merely made the war last longer unnecessarily.

            That being said though, my point still stands in regards to the Tang Dynasty’s attempt as well as the two Manchu invasions – the second which had Korea reduced to a vassal state for centuries.

          • Chucky3176

            Korea was never a “vassal state” of China for centuries. It was basically China left Korea alone, as long as Korea respected China’s culture.

            This blog will explain why you and others consistently get it wrong, when you say “vassal state”.

            http://askakorean.blogspot.ca/2014/06/korea-was-never-part-of-china.html

          • Black_Plague

            Yet Korea was still forced to submit, wasn’t allowed to build castles, break off all relations with Ming, while King Injo and ministers had to give away their sons as hostages.

            Regardless, it’s an embarrassing mark for Joseon and still an aggressive act committed by its northern neighbor. That is my point, no need to get picky over little things.

          • Chucky3176

            They were the Manchus at that time. They weren’t even Chinese yet, before they got absorbed. What in the world are you talking about, as if they are equivalent to present day Chinese? Another strawman.

          • Chucky3176

            The Joseon Dynasty lasted 800 years, yet you’re taking a tiny portion of its history of the Manchu invasion in the mid 1600’s. If you didn’t know, the Manchus also conquered all of China. So did the Mongols in the 1200’s. The only two times when Korea was conquered by the northern bordering countries, were on those two occasions by non-Chinese empires.

          • Black_Plague

            Where does it say or even imply in my post that Joseon was a shit country or anything like that?

            My point is that it was still a period when Korea was invaded by a non-Japanese entity, and an embarrassing patch of its history at that, considering the political climate at the time. I couldn’t quite care less if the Manchus weren’t Han Chinese or some other minority in China.

            They regardless were well on way to becoming the bigwigs of China along with the Ming rebels by the time Korea was invaded while the Ming Dynasty itself was crumbling rapidly.

            You can bring up little facts and corrections all you want, but my point still stands – Japan isn’t the only aggressor towards Korea, and China, in whatever shape and form it was in the past, shares just as much guilt.

          • Chucky3176

            LOL, where did I say China is more reliable? Going back to Japan, they’ve been a thorn on the side of Korea for centuries, and not just for those two biggest aggressions which you cite.

          • Black_Plague

            Considering you’ve been consistently saying anti-Japanese rhetoric and seem convinced that Japan is going to one day attack and take over Dokdo (LOL), my personal assumption was that you’d take China over them.

            But anyway, regardless, my argument overall is against your claim of Japan having ‘historical genes of aggression’ and ‘habits’, which is quite frankly, absolute nonsense and only goes to show your extreme bias against Japan.

            From your logic, the very same can be applied to the English and French since the Middle Ages. That being said though, it is those two acts of aggression that are the biggest source of anti-Japanese rhetoric than anything else – whatever else is there is quite frankly, irrelevant in comparison.

          • Rutim

            > whatever else is there is quite frankly, irrelevant in comparison

            Koreans and PRC have really tough time when they want to blame Japan for anything so that they are corenered to saying ‘remember the Imjin Wars?’ ancient rethorics from centuries ago. It’s much harder to tell that Japan made Korea a fully independent state (well, it didn’t last too long before 1905) by fighting the Sino-Japanese wars in the late XIX century. Yes, annexing the Korean Peninsula was in fact an effect of the war between China and Japan over puppet state of Korea. Now China wants to make South Korea less reliable on US and Japan on economic side which will work in favour of them using the tactics that Russia does in Europe with gas and oil. China will just have to say: ‘We didn’t like your behavior in X case so now we’re putting an embargo on your Korean Z product until you’ll wise up and learn the proper ways!’.

          • Chucky3176

            Nonsense to bring the English and French in here, since there aren’t any people from the Middle Ages to tell their stories of English and French atrocities. On the other hand, we still have many people in Korea and China who still remember the brutal Japanese. Of course they could be forgiven and forgotten, and I support that ideal in general, but not when the Japanese are distorting and denying their history and holding memorial rights for those murderers. You don’t see any Americans or English glorifying and justifying slavery of Africans, and their governments supporting it. But Japan??? That’s the big difference my dear fellow, why Japan still can’t get be trusted. They have not denounced their old ways, so forgive me if I really can’t trust what anything they say.

          • Black_Plague

            1. We have something called books and the Internet, buddy. It’s not rocket science to find that the English and French had fought each other countless times for centuries, and likely were at the stage of mistrust at one point in their history that Korea and Japan are at currently.

            2. ” I support that ideal in general,” – Your posts here don’t seem to indicate this at all, and it would seem you’re more paranoid of Japan trying to relive its Showa-era days, which is absolutely unlikely, than anything else.

            3. ” the Japanese are distorting and denying their history and holding memorial rights for those murderers.” – By ‘the Japanese’, exactly which part of the Japanese population do you mean exactly?

            If you mean the uyoku dantai groups and elements of the LDP (including Abe himself) and their supporters, then that’s fine and dandy. But if you mean Japan overall, then there’s something wrong with you there.

            As far as holding memorial rights for murderers go, Japan isn’t exactly exceptional in that regard. Korea on its part, shouldn’t have Park Chunghee and Rhee Seungman buried in the Seoul National Cemetery either.

            4. Just because Abe and the LDP glorify and justify Showa Japan’s conquests does not mean Japan overall does. Abe isn’t going to remain in power forever, and the same goes for the LDP.

            Japan even actually apologized and compensated for what it did in WW2 back in the 1990s (PM Murayama and the Asian Women’s Fund, particularly), yet the ROK government conveniently remains silent about this. Rather than focusing on pinpointing Abe and select individuals as well as the uyoku dantai groups, Koreans – just like you – are bizarrely painting Japan as a whole of being pro-Abe or pro-Showa, which is completely false and an example of chestbeating “KOREA STRONG!!! JAPAN WEAK!!!”

            5. “They have not denounced their old ways, so forgive me if I really can’t trust what anything they say.” – If you want to let events from 70+ years ago influence the present and future actions/decision of a country, then that’s your loss and naivety.

          • Chucky3176

            1. Yes we have what we call books and the internet buddy. So that’s why your disengenius attempt at passing off the lame example of English and French fails.

            2. I’m not the one living in the Showa era. It’s the Japanese government, their actions, and their words that provoke others into wondering if this is 21st century or we’re back in the 1900’s. Haven’t you seen the laughable scene last year in the Japanese parliament when Shinzo Abe and his men shout “banzai” honoring their emperor? lol..

            3. I mean the LDP, the uyoku dantai, the Zaitokukai, the 64% of Japanese polled who support Shinzo Abe’s visit to Yasukuni, and the majority of Japanese voters who are polled as supporting Japan’s own version of whitewashed history (or lies, depending on who you talk to). If you don’t agree with me that the majority of Japanese have a skewed view of Japan as the WWII victim, then tell me, what do you think the majority of Japanese really think? I’m all ears, tell me how many Japanese have the view of their WWII history as what the rest of the world knows as. I’d like to see you explain this now.

            4. Don’t give me that fucking bull shit OK? It was only two weeks ago that Japan’s own government alleged in their new “investigative findings” that the Japanese apology was “coerced” by Korea. I’ll spill it out to you, if you don’t know what that means. They’re saying Japan never really apologized after all. It was just a lip syncing by Japan to please the bullying Koreans. Their own words, buddy. Does that sound like an real apologize to you or an un-apology? The Asian Women’s Funds were never accepted by the Comfort Women themselves because they were never endorsed by the Japanese government (because the Japanese government refused to endorse the fund). How come you and your Japan apologists and Japanese government never mention about that, huh? What was so hard for all the Japanese government officials to just say “sorry, it was wrong, it will never happen again, and on behalf of Japanese government we will apologize”? But only less than a third of the Japanese government at that time ended up voting for the passage of the bill. I have nothing bad to say about Murayama himself though. He’s a great honest moral man. He did try hard to right the ship, although he failed in the end. The chestbeating “KOREA STRONG!!! JAPAN WEAK!!!”?? F you! Go to Tokyo any day of the week and see how many marches with banners flying Nazi flags and “kill Korean cock roaches” signs there are.

            5. Don’t put your dirty words into my mouth. I never said events 70+ years ago alone should be enough to influence what happens in the present and the future. I’m tired of explaining this over and over again to numskull Japanophile Japan apologists like you. It’s not necessarily just the deeds of the past that leads to problems. It’s also words and actions in TODAY’S Japan that is the real problem. Just as you would never trust any country’s government and media that denies the fact that Holocaust never happened, don’t expect me to trust any country’s government and media that says Comfort Women never happened, that Nanjing Massacre never happened, that Japanese invasions in Asia was helpful aid to Asia, that there was no Unit 731, etc etc.

            Once again, don’t put your words into my mouth and read into things that you only want to read. I never said Japan WILL ATTACK Korea. Can you stop with this distortions? What I said was Japan’s right wing government COULD lead to clashes over disputed territories. Notice the word “COULD”, “possibility”, “a chance”, “partial, or a percentage of probability”. Do you know what those mean?

          • Black_Plague

            1. Lol, do tell me how the animosity between the Brits and French from centuries ago is different to Korea and Japan today then.

            2. Your other posts don’t indicate and seem more like you’re unable to make the difference between Japan as a country and the current Japanese govt.

            3. You do realize that Yasukuni isn’t a shrine solely dedicated to war criminals, right? I highly doubt that 64% of those polled were thinking that everyone in the shrine are angels and saints, and there’s no indication of such.

            Polls themselves are also subjective – and the reason why Japanese people have a ‘skewed version’ of their WW2 history is simply because it’s not covered enough in schools. Yet, you have the Internet and books from the library that go into full detail, making access to all of it easier.

            Hence why I find extremely questionable that the vast majority of Japan’s population actually believes their country’s actions in WW2 are something worth being praised.

            4. It is here that I have to say you are being no better than the people that support Showa Japan’s actions by being utterly biased yourself to the extremes.

            I take it you’re not aware that it doesn’t really help Korea’s position one bit at all that it has its own lot of people that are anti-Japan to the extremes.

            “The Asian Women’s Funds were never accepted by the Comfort Women themselves because they were never endorsed by the Japanese government (because the Japanese government refused to endorse the fund).”

            Yet nearly 5 million dollars were raised by the Japanese people themselves and were given to 285 comfort women in Korea, Taiwan and the PH and the AWF itself was set up by the Japanese govt under Murayama.

            Probably not enough for you, but it is regardless a step to the right road and to think. I take it you’re also not aware that it was actually activists who convinced other comfort women not to accept the compensation either.

            “The chestbeating “KOREA STRONG!!! JAPAN WEAK!!!”?? F you! Go to Tokyo any day of the week and see how many marches with banners flying Nazi flags and “kill Korean cock roaches” signs there are.”

            By your tone, it’s pretty obvious that you’re chest-beating exactly that. I don’t know about you, but I’ve actually visited Tokyo myself before, and certainly didn’t encounter such, or even anti-Korean xenophobia for that matter. And quite frankly, I left with a good impression and this is coming from someone who actually grossly disliked Japan overall before.

            5 – “Don’t put your dirty words into my mouth” – Says the one who’s consistently saying “F U!” and calling me a ‘numbskull Japanophile Japan apologist’. If you can’t keep it civil, then go take a breather.

            Your other posts fully indicate that you think Abe and his supporters’ mindset are akin to that of their predecessors in the Showa years and that there’s a possibility of them going to conflict with the ROK. It couldn’t get any simpler than that.

            I’m sorry, but not even those with the biggest hardon for war would ever want to actually do that. Not even Abe, especially considering the US wouldn’t allow it ever.

            Thirdly, so apparently a country’s current govt’s stance regarding history from decades ago somehow makes them 100% untrustworthy in everything else? The Turkish govt doesn’t accept the Armenian Genocide, while Arab govts pretty much state Israel is the plague of Earth – that didn’t stop them from cooperating with one another in different levels now, did it?

            “Once again, don’t put your words into my mouth and read into things that you only want to read. I never said Japan WILL ATTACK Korea. Can you stop with this distortions? What I said was Japan’s right wing government COULD lead to clashes over disputed territories. Notice the word “COULD”, “possibility”, “a chance”, “partial, or a percentage of probability”. Do you know what those mean?”

            No, but you’re obviously concerned of such a scenario, despite that it’s extremely unlikely, if not impossible. That is my overall point, plus calling out on your bigotry.

          • Chucky3176

            1. I’ve already explained this to you already. Not going to repeat again and again.

            2. I’ve given you a chance to explain what the real situation in Japan with their view is. You never explained.

            3. No kidding. It also has a disgusting display in the museaum that completely whitewashes their atrocities and turns Japanese dead into victims, while glorifying their WWII military past. If you want to go and defend the shrine, go right ahead.

            4. Five million dollars raised by 120 million Japanese does not change the fact that majority of Japanese government refused to endorse the Murayama apology until it was considerably toned down, and they still refused to back that fund. I’m being rude to you because you started first with the “buddy routine”, and your tone with me when you wrote “Korea Strong, Japan Weak” – when that was never my intention. I wanted to see how it feels when that’s done to you. So if you can dish it, but can’t take it, then get out of the bang. I don’t care how many times you visited Japan, didn’t you just say there were books and the internet? Of course since you didn’t see them with their own eyes, there were/are no anti-Korean marches! Yup that’s it!

            5. This is what you wrote 11 days ago in Koreabang.

            “Just because the chances of an all-out war isn’t unlikely doesn’t mean it should be necessarily ruled out of the picture.”

            Remember that?

          • Black_Plague

            1. Very well then.

            2. You haven’t really explained yourself much either, given that you rely on polls and consider the current Japanese govt and its supporters’ stance to be the general norm. But let’s be frank here – there’s no way of even gathering an accurate census of how many people in the entire Japanese population view their WW2 past.

            From my personal experience with Japanese people however, my impression is that they simply don’t care about it because it has nothing to do with them, or were well-mannered enough not to engage in unnecessary hostility.

            3. You’re now distracting away from the point here – the point that the Yasukuni Shrine also honors not only soldiers who were killed in wars preceding WW2 but also civilians who were victim to WW2 itself.

            You can argue with little semantic all you want, but first and foremost, the shrine is a dedication to all the dead. Not some sort of ritual reserved solely for war criminals and their actions. I don’t think there’s any simpler way to explain it.

            4. “buddy routine” – And this is hostile how?

            “”Korea Strong, Japan Weak” – when that was never my intention – Your extreme bias showed exactly that expression, and quite honestly, I don’t have much tolerance for anything resembling such, even if it’s not your intention.

            For one thing, I didn’t go as far to actually insult you personally either. You on the other hand, did.

            “Five million dollars raised by 120 million Japanese does not change the fact that majority of Japanese government refused to endorse the Murayama apology until it was considerably toned down, and they still refused to back that fund.” – So you’re basically saying *everyone* in Japan has to apologize and endorse Murayama.

            In case you’ve forgotten, Japan is a democracy. People are allowed to express what they want. Regardless, the AWF is still the right step on Japan’s behalf and just because it wasn’t fully supported by J-politicnas doesn’t mean that it’s a lackluster effort that should be ignored or trambled as ‘not enough’. It shows that there are people in Japan that care and are willing to do the right thing.

            This isn’t something that will be resolved overnight or even in the near future, and no amount of bitching, complaining, criticizing and nationalist rhetoric from SK is going to force Japan in both the public and govt to do the right thing – in fact, it could very well do the opposite, if not already.

            Thirdly, books and internet – all of which have sources of varying opinions, some which are crazy, some which are accurate, some that are neutral etc. You act as if everything’s uniformed. But oh well.

            5. Grasping into little things again. If you read my comments over on that exact page, the topic was regarding North Korea – which you know, actually poses a far bigger security threat than Japan does by miles, and has actually engaged in hostile actions in recent times.

            Apples and oranges, really. What can be said about Situation A doesn’t necessarily apply to Situation B. That’s politics and security for you.

            We can argue about this all day, but you’re not going to convince me (or other posters here who have a similar stance as I do here) and quite frankly, it’s pointless to argue with someone who’s excessively biased like you.

          • Chucky3176

            “From my personal experience with Japanese people however, my impression is that they simply don’t care about it because it has nothing to do with them, or were well-mannered enough not to engage in unnecessary hostility”

            So how do those old politicians who look fondly at old Japan, get voted in and out all the time? How is it that a lot of them say some crazy shit, yet they’re still hanging in there and getting voted in all the time, if the voters didn’t care or are opposed to them? Obviously, there are enough electoral supporters of these loons, they get elected in again and again.

            “It shows that there are people in Japan that care and are willing to do the right thing.”

            That was twenty years ago. There were some who cared and willing to do the right thing as you say. But ask the same question now. If allowed to answer the question anonymously, they’ll probably tell you Koreans are lying, it never happened. lol..

            “Your extreme bias showed exactly that expression,”

            How does my very low opinion of Japan translate to “Strong Korea, Weak Japan”? lol… come on buddy, you can come up with better.

            “no amount of bitching, complaining, criticizing and nationalist rhetoric from SK is going to force Japan in both the public and govt to do the right thing”

            You’re wrong there, pal. See? You again are putting words in my mouth – I don’t like people who do that. If you read my past posts, I never advocated Korean government or media “bitching, complaining, criticizing”. I don’t advocate words and whining and complaining about Japan. I advocate gradually reducing trade and contacts with them and just ignoring each other. Japan doesn’t need Korea, and Korea doesn’t need Japan. That is the best answer for all this conflict – out of sight, out of mind. Also, if Japan, US, and China has the right to work their national interests, then Korea also has the right to improve on the national interests and also being prepared for any confrontations, be they economic or military.

          • Black_Plague

            I highly doubt the average Japanese voter votes in their selected politician simply based on historical issues going back since 70 years ago. That’d be like saying Koreans oppose Park Geunhye of being president solely because she’s the daughter of a dictator, or that pro-Park voters voted her in because they think she’ll create another economic miracle because her father did.

            ” If allowed to answer the question anonymously, they’ll probably tell you Koreans are lying, it never happened. lol..”

            I can say the exact same vice-versa – namely you know, Koreans on the internet saying rubbish like all Japanese are monkeys, Tokyo should be nuked by North Korea and the list goes on.

            I translate your lowly opinion as such because it’s excessively biased, as said multiple times. It’s not that difficult to figure out, and I’m certainly not the only person here who thinks so. I understand the criticism directed at the pro-Showa crowd in Japan, but using it to bash the entire country (as you’re doing, since you said everyone in Japan has to apologize) is quite bluntly, little more than ethnic-nationalist chest-thumping.

            “You again are putting words in my mouth – I don’t like people who do that. If you read my past posts, I never advocated Korean government or media “bitching, complaining, criticizing”. I don’t advocate words and whining and complaining about Japan”

            In this comment sectionbitching/complaining/criticizing is EXACTLY what you’ve done. Is it that hard to admit even slightly that your ‘low opinion’ of Japan is at the very least borderline to outright irrational hate that can be found easily within Koreans?

            Good luck with trying to reduce trade, contact and ignoring Japan outright. The US won’t take that too kindly, and whether you like it or not, the reality is that both countries need to either put aside their issues for the time being and cooperate together against China or at least be a little bit more pragmatic and focus on issues of much higher-priority.

            Even more so, Korea’s govt knows that it needs to bash Japan every now and then to whip up some good’ol nationalism when they need some domestic support.

            I’m done with this.

          • Chucky3176

            “In this comment sectionbitching/complaining/criticizing is EXACTLY what you’ve done.”

            I just knew you would come up with that line.
            I am not a government organization. Nor am I some civic group fighting for something, trying to bring attention to the Comfort women, etc etc. I don’t burn flags, I don’t cut off my fingers to bring attention, nor do I even wear “dokdo” t-shirts as a statement. I merely post my opinions on the internet, on subjects that are related to Korea, in Koreabang. If I come off as bitching and whining about Japanese apology and shit, then that’s just your misguided opinion. If owners of sites like this are inviting opinions on this subject, then I’m not going to come here and sing Kumbaya, Japan is great and praise Japan. I’m going to speak my mind, and I’m going to be honest. I’m not impressed with Japan. Does that make you angry? Does that make you hate Koreans? Well, if that’s the case, I’m still not going to change my mind. I will speak what’s on my mind.

          • Chucky3176

            “So you’re basically saying *everyone* in Japan has to apologize and endorse Murayama.”

            That’s right. Almost everyone, minus the fringe. But in Japan, why isn’t there? Almost everyone in America believes slavery was bad, native Indians badly mistreated. Almost everyone in Germany believed Hitler was a dictator who unjustly killed Jews. There are certain things like facts that are undisputable, and if any politicians who disagree with these undisputables are immediately in political trouble, and hounded out of office, not get elected over and over again while saying stupid things over and over again to fan the flames over and over again.

            “Yasukuni Shrine also honors not only soldiers who were killed in wars preceding WW2 but also civilians who were victim to WW2 itself.”

            WRONG. They honor Japanese civilians who were victims to WWII. You won’t find any honoring of Asians who were victims of Japan. And it still doesn’t excuse the fact that Yasukuni still refuses to remove the thousands of class A and class B war criminals, nor the abominable meuseum which completely whitewash Japan’s WWII history.

          • Black_Plague

            Last time I checked, not everyone in America apologized to the African-Americans for putting them in slavery or to the Native Americans for committing genocide. I certainly don’t recall every single soldier of the Wehrmacht and their descendants apologizing for every single person that was killed by the Nazi regime.

            Given that, to think that everyone in Japan has to do the same is completely unrealistic by all means and only shows your excessive bias.

            As far as the Yasakuni Shrine goes, in case you forgot, it’s a shrine dedicated to JAPAN’s war dead. That is the exact purpose. Is it that hard to understand? From your logic, Russia should also make shrines dedicated to the numerous Germans and other eastern European nationals it killed during WW2, and the Americans should do the exact same for the number of Japanese civilians killed by the aerial bombings.

            You’re just grasping onto straws now.

            “Yasukuni still refuses to remove the thousands of class A and class B war criminals,”

            Thousands? There are 14 Class A war criminals, out of the 1068 war criminals enshrined there, a tiny minority out of the 2.5 million+. The other remaining 1054 are Class B and Class C war criminals.

            If Korea is so hellbent on this, then first it should look at itself by removing Park Chunghee and Rhee Seungman from the Seoul National Cemetery for starters, as well as any ROK soldier and policeman that was involved in war crimes such as the Bodo League Massacre as well as those who voluntarily served the Japanese military in WW2.

          • chucky3176

            I think you’re the one grasping for straws when you insist that I’m insisting that every single Japanese apologize. Simply ridiculous reasoning. Don’t waste my time if you’re going to debate like this.

            “Thousands? There are 14 Class A war criminals, out of the 1068 war criminals enshrined there, a tiny minority out of the 2.5 million+. The other remaining 1054 are Class B and Class C war criminals.”

            Isn’t that still ‘thousands’? What’s the problem?

            “If Korea is so hellbent on this, then first it should look at itself by removing Park Chunghee and Rhee Seungman from the Seoul National Cemetery for starters, as well as any ROK soldier and policeman that was involved in war crimes such as the Bodo League Massacre as well as those who voluntarily served the Japanese military in WW2.”

            More grasping of straws. Gwangju and Jeju massacres are taught as massacres and they are honestly portrayed in the Korean text books. There is a large memorial in Gwanju for the 1980 victims of massacre, which are honored every year. No Korean politician dare to praise those massacres and say it never happened, without risking political lives.

            Please stop grasping for straws. This is ridiculous. There’s no point in debating with you. You think this cold relations with Japan and Korea, is all Korea’s fault. There was nothing Japan did wrong here. OK, got you. Japan numba one! Japan best! Japan righteous and pure! Korea evil! Why Korea bully Japan? Right.

          • Black_Plague

            No, you’re the one that was grasping at straws when you openly stated that every single Japanese has to apologize. I merely called you out on that, and now you simply accuse me of grasping straws.

            “Isn’t that still thousands'”

            By ‘thousands’, it means you’re saying there are several thousand war criminals enshrined there, when it’s only a little over a thousand. English comprehension issues?

            “More grasping of straws. Gwangju and Jeju massacres are taught as massacres and they are honestly portrayed in the Korean text books. There is a large memorial in Gwanju for the 1980 victims of massacre, which are honored every year. No Korean politician dare to praise those massacres and say it never happened, without risking political lives.”

            That didn’t stop people from burying Park Chunghee and Rhee Seungman in the SMC, did it now? And yet, you can still find plenty of people that consider them saviors, or at least play down their crimes or think it was for the ‘greater good’.

            Not once did I ever state it’s solely Korea’s fault that relations with Japan are frosty. I believe both are in fault – though everyone knows Japan’s faults while tending to think Korea’s completely innocent in the matter, which is far from the truth.

            If Korea ever wants to receive the apology it really wants, then it’s something that only time can fix at this rate. Protesting about it every now and then isn’t going to work, and has failed to do so for quite some time. You may not like it, but that’s how it is and that’s how it likely will stay for a very long time.

          • Chucky3176

            “No, you’re the one that was grasping at straws when you openly stated that every single Japanese has to apologize”

            I did? Where? And how do you suppose I receive all 120 million apologies? Get real buddy. You haven’t read a single thing I wrote, you just read what you want to read. Debate over, I’m not wasting anymore of my time on you.

            “If Korea ever wants to receive the apology it really wants, then it’s something that only time can fix at this rate. Protesting about it every now and then isn’t going to work, and has failed to do so for quite some time. You may not like it, but that’s how it is and that’s how it likely will stay for a very long time.”

            Woe there, who says I want their apology? As far as I’m concerned I’m not interested in their apology. What I did say is that if Japan wants to kill this issue once and for all, their parliament should approve the apology and pass the bill of law, and stop teaching sanitized version of Japan’s role in WWII. Those are two big steps that will end this issue once and for all. This is just an advice from lot of people (not just me). Japan can take the advice or continue to fight the battle and bring distrust unto themselves, and they have chosen the latter. Only then, it would still take many years where there could be enough trust left that could be built upon, which would sooth Korean’s fear of Japan’s true motives of remilitarizing.

          • balls

            The fact is, if tomorrow Japan issued an apology signed by every citizen, you would still find something to whine about. “It wasn’t heartfelt enough”. You know, in Germany there are people who think Hitler was a swell guy. Stalin is activley revered in segments of Russian society and by Putin.

            Korea will never get over the fact that “little brother” Japan invaded and subjagted Korea. It was the ultimate loss of face. No matter how fast your internet is, or how popular K-pop becomes you guys will NEVER get over it.

          • chucky3176

            No. I won’t let you use this same old shit argument from Japan. If Japan apologized tomorrow, and the Japanese parliament signed it into a bill of law…. well that heart felt apology never happened, so you can’t say that this will not solve the problem with Korea, when Japan hasn’t even really tried it, nor is it even close to letting that happen. Another lame strawman grasp, Japanese style. You know in Germany, people who think Hitler was a swell guy never get elected, nor allowed to write in the medias. They are considered “hateful minority of neo nazi loons”. On the other hand, Japan? More strawman.

          • balls

            That’s your new technique? “Strawman! Everything is a strawman!”
            Japan has issued some apologies –

            You will say: “They werent good enough for reasons xyz
            Japan signed the normailization treaty in 1965 –

            You will say: “That doesn’t count for reasons xyz”

            And the circular argument will continue.
            You have an irrational hatred of Japan. You are as bad as the idiot fringe who harrass ethnic Koreans in Tokyo. That is the ideological space you are working within. Deny it all you want, but it’s true. Think about that.

            The nub of the issue, as I said before, is Japan humiliated Korea. Korea doesn’t feel they have got any revenge for that humiliation. You want to rub salt into the wounds.

          • fe9290529

            die painfully moron, preferably by getting your face cut to shreds.

      • Black_Plague

        I usually agree with your posts, but really, Japan having ‘historical genes of being aggressive militarists’?

        I think you could easily say the same for pretty much every other country that was a regional or world power at any point in history. Britain, Russia, Turkey (as the Ottoman Empire), Italy, Spain etc. all have taken part in bloody wars and conquering others, but you don’t see them trying to do the same thing today or even in the foreseeable future.

        Since you say the Japanese have such ‘genes’, I could probably say the same for North Koreans as early as the days of the Goguryeo kingdom.

        • fewfewafewfe9w

          die painfully thx..

      • David

        I am a little confused. If you really feel this way why would you have felt better two days ago when they still had the little piece of paper saying “no you don’t”. Article 9 was (actually IS because it has not been eliminated) only as good as their word. They have kept that word for 70 years and if they suddenly revert to their “historical genes” a little piece of paper will not stop them. Japan has been helping Korea economically and as a partner against China for 40 years.

        • Chucky3176

          I am no fan of the PRC, but I have to agree with this Chinese national’s opinion.

          http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2014/07/162_160620.html

          The US is simply using Japan (and the US has a history of choosing dubious sides like the Al Quida, Saddam Hussein who later turned on them), against China, because the US is jealous of China’s rise. This is a big mistake, letting loose the Japanese who may look like gentle pet pooch, on surface to Americans, yet still have the potential to turn out to be like a wild angry mad dog when all the masks come off.

          • David

            Lets clarify, we worked with the Taliban to kick the Russians out of Afghanistan (helping the Afghan people and keeping the Russians in check), we did not work with Al Quida, there was no Al Quida then. We backed Iraq against Iran in the Iraq/Iran war, because Iran had kicked out the Shah that we WERE supporting, it does not mean we were friends with Hussein.

            Of course we use the (crazy and unreasonable) threat of Japan against China, not because we are jealous of China’s economic rise but because it is using that new economic power and threatening its neighbors. China has a border dispute with EVER country it borders. It has claimed the entire South China Sea, all of the Himalayan mountains, Most of Mongolia, Islands in dispute with like 6 different countries, parts of India and Pakistan, even parts of North Korea. China does not have a single neighbor that it does not try to take territory from. Japan learned it does not have the resources (manpower or minerals) to wage a modern war. It learned that to its humiliation 70 years ago. China feels they do. China sees no problem in using its size and strategic position to increase its control of Asia. If you think China is not a threat to Korea (they are the only reason North Korea still exists today) in both a military and economic sense you do not understand geopolitics, you are simply engaging in Japan bashing.

            I am not saying China will attack, but it has never shown a reluctance to use military force on its own people. Using it on its neighbors (if the U.S. were not here to counter them) would not give them a second of pause.

          • Black_Plague

            The Taliban didn’t exist during the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan, considering it didn’t come into actual existence until the early 90s. Before then, they were little more than stooges for the Pakistanis, and weren’t the only bunch that were fighting the Soviets and the Afghan govt at the time.

          • David

            OK, I thought I was being obvious but lets be SPECIFIC. The U.S. worked with the Mudajhideen, the leaders of which, after the Soviets pulled out and order was put back together, BECAME the Taliban. Different name same guys.

          • BillBo

            Jealous of the rise of China? China would utterly collapse economically if it cut ties with the west.

      • guest

        Chucky, i told you to get a new hobby. go get laid or something man!! that Korean poop wine is getting to your head!!!

        • guest3859

          consume drano.

  • cantonizi

    The US slaughtered their Samurais, killed their women and children in many Japanese islands and nuked them twice, and they still want to be screwed by the US again and again.
    Must be the big GI thing the US army has for Asians and not just for the women.

    • balls

      It’s the US’s world and Japan knows it.

    • bigmamat

      I guess it escaped you that they fucked with us first.

    • Black_Plague

      That was rather painful to read.

      1. Samurais ceased to exist long before World War 2. The ‘samurais’ you see in WW2 were little more than officers carrying swords to cut off people’s heads for laughs and giggles and tactically deficient suicidal charges against rifles and machine guns.

      2. I take it you don’t know that the Japanese themselves ignited war in the Pacific by not only attacking the US but also pillaging whole portions of Southeast Asia to the point it would have even made the Germans look like saints.

      Play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. Japan did and got exactly that.

      3. You don’t seem to be aware that if the nukes weren’t dropped, Japan would have been starved into submission or outright invaded, both options leading to the deaths of millions.

      Like it or not, the A-bombs were the lesser evil of all options to subdue a nation whose government was filled with ultra-nationalist fanatics who were intent in fighting to the last man, woman and child, even going as far to arm civilians with bamboo sticks, muskets and all sorts of crude weapons that wouldn’t have been particularly effective.

  • bang2tang

    invading dokdo islet? eh…

  • takasar1

    frankly, what can they do?? in the late 19th century, japan was the most powerful and united force in asia. the most industrialised and modern, now what? if china simply exerts any force, japan gets blown over, picking a fight with either korea would be too costly, Indonesia is a giant and even little Singapore can pack a punch. not to mention the fact that the US is holding the leash still. more of a symbolic move than anything. people need to quit whining

  • fawkthegreen

    fuck the usa, i hope islam fucks up the us again
    China and Russia and Korea must work together to prevent japs and there fucken warmongering americans from ever attacking anyone gaian

    japanese history proves that japan always invades others, they have invaded korea and china multiple times in history, when has china and korea ever invaded japan except that time when that mongolian led fleet sank in the ocean?

    • foob

      Could you be any more delusional? China and Russia? Because they have no expansionist history, do they? You have no idea what you are talking about and you live in a fantasy land.

    • Black_Plague

      Maybe you should take a look at how many times the Chinese invaded Vietnam and Korea before sprouting nonsense. And of course, their ridiculous antics against its neighbors in recent times.

      The fact you even wish for Islam to ‘fuck up’ the US is also hilarious. In case you didn’t know, Islamist terrorism is also perceived as a huge threat to Russia’s national security, and they’ve been fighting it for well over a decade.

      Even more recently, the US and Russia are basically on the same side in Iraq, seeing how the former is providing intelligence and advisers while the latter has given away CAS aircraft for the Iraqi military.

  • Dude

    No one is gonna invade Korea. Jesus, Koreans have fallen so hard for their own BS that Japan is their mortal enemy that they actually believe that Japan is going to try to conquer them, lol

    • JasonOnizukafuckingdiepainfull

      die painfully you utter dolt.

  • KCdude

    Hitler and Abe have the same quality of being a leader. No, It’s not due to their evilness. Anyways, Hiter’s leadership destroyed Nazi Germany from the inside. This is the same for Abe.

  • niggaplz

    it must happen

  • BillBo

    This seems so silly to me. What reason would Japan have to get into a war with Korea?? This is a new age of global politics and economics. If they’re really worried about it they should remember that about 30k US troops are stationed in Korea right now. So do they assume Japan wouldn’t care about risking war with the US and rest of the western world too?

    The idea that Japan would attack Korea in the 21st century is outlandish

Personals @ chinaSMACK - Meet people, make friends, find lovers? Don't be so serious!»