Disbelief as Korea is Ranked 108th in Global Gender Equality

A detailed criticism of the belief that Korean women are the victims of overwhelming discrimination has spread around the Korean internet. The author disputes the conclusion of the 2012 World Economic Forum Gender Gap Report, which ranks South Korea 108th in gender equality out of 135 surveyed countries. Notable critiques of the data include its omission of all Korean sex workers from employment figures, (the article claims there are 140-270,000 such workers), it’s lack of attention to the fact that women voluntarily leave the work force because they would rather enjoy hobbies and take care of children, and the rebuttal that men make better workers because they are driven to fulfill social expectations that they provide for their family.

While Ilbe users responded enthusiastically to the report’s allegations, there was also strong criticism against men for having double standards when it comes to discrimination, illustrated with ‘double standard scholar’ meme comics.

From Media Watch:

Sexual discrimination claims based on biased data

“In my next life, I would like to be male even if I am born as an insect.”

Park-geunhye-Cho-yunseon

Minister of Gender Equality and Family, Cho Yun-seon with President Park Geun-hye

Minister of Gender Equality and Family, Cho Yun-seon, said this quote at an OECD forum in Paris, France last May. Cho said Korea is one of the most sexually unequal countries in the world according to the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap report [WEF’s gender gap index ranked Korea at 108th among 135 surveyed countries in 2012] and Korea should try to improve its standings. Is sexual discrimination in Korea so severe that a minister representing Korea would make such an extreme remark quoting an unflattering index in an international forum? As a scientist whose daily job is evaluating data, I have noticed that nonsensical data is being used in Korean gender discrimination arguments with the foregone conclusion that “women are being discriminated against”.

The absurd conclusion in women’s rights discussions is that Korea ranks below countries that practice female circumcision and honor killings

First, let’s take a look at the report quoted by Minister Cho. The ranking looks strange from the very beginning. India, where episodes of sexual violence have made international news and honor killings are committed, is ranked higher than Korea at 105th on the WEF list. Uganda (28th), Tanzania (46th) and Senegal (90th), countries where they practice female circumcision is ranked much higher than Korea. According to this, it seems like in Korea, women wouldn’t even be treated like human beings. Does Minister Cho really agree with this?

This report uses four criteria; “economic participation and opportunity”, “educational attainment”, “health and survival”, and “political empowerment”. In the measures of economic participation and opportunity, Korea, Mongolia, Kazakhstan and Kenya ranked 116th, 1st, 19th and 35th. In the health and survival category, Kazakhstan, Sri Lanka and Uganda shared the first position whereas Korea ranked at 78th. In the political empowerment category, Korea, South Africa, India and Uganda ranked at 86th, 7th, 17th and 28th.

In the educational attainment category, Korea is ranked at surprising 99th, while Lesotho, Brazil and the UAE ranked first. In Korea, even a constitutional appeal against Ehwa Women’s University’s women-only admission policy for their law school was dismissed. Let’s take a close look at the data to figure out why the report tells us that Korean women are badly discriminated against in education. In the sub-category of enrollment in primary education, Korea ranked 94th. Elementary school is mandatory for everyone but the report says only 98% of women and 99% of men received primary education in Korea. Would it be because it includes everyone in Korea, meaning the older generation who grew up before primary education became mandatory in 1950? More women from the period where primary education was poorly implemented are alive than men. This cannot be used to support claims of sexual discrimination. For every 10 women, there are 7 men in the over-65 age group in Korea.

Lesotho-Botswana-Korea

Lesotho and Botswana ranked first in educational attainment while Korea came at 99th.
Only the female-to-male ratios matter in this ranking while absolute values are omitted.

On the other hand, the UN Development Program rated Korea 11th in gender equality in 2011 based on an improved set of criteria. However, Minister Cho, who is in charge of addressing Korea’s gender equality situation, chose to quote only absurd figures and defamed the nation, saying she’d rather be a male insect. Isn’t a minister of Korea supposed to refute wrong claims and properly represent Korea?

UNDP-gender-inequality-index

Gender Inequality Index and related indicators
from the UN Development Program’s Human Development Report 2011.
South Korea ranked at 11th out of 187 nations.

Does the misinterpreted data about socioeconomic discrimination in fact imply discrimination against men?

There are also many problems with the data commonly used to claim sexual discrimination against women within Korea. The popular story is that women are being discriminated against, as shown by the big gender gap in employment rate and income. However, we need to take a closer look.

In fact, the gender gap in employment rate and income is exaggerated in Korea. Among OECD countries, only Korea and Slovenia have made the sex trade completely illegal. MOGEF estimated that there might be 140~270k or a higher number of female sex workers in Korea. Sex workers who earn more than the average worker are exempted from the Korean income statistics while other countries include them. This partly contributes to the income gap that appears wider on paper than it really is. Do they turn a blind eye to this for the sexual discrimination claims?

Korea does not institutionally discriminate against women. In other words, they don’t give women disadvantages in employment, promotion and income solely because they are women. The reason given for a lack of female representation among CEOs or high-ranking officials is the ‘glass ceiling’, which, if you look at it from another angle, means there is no clear proof for discrimination.

The reason why more men have jobs and earn higher income than women can be attributed to the male mindset. Men will voluntarily spend more on dating costs than women. If wives want to take charge of housework and parenting or get a small job with low income that leaves them more time to work at home, they can be institutionally supported, however this is not sexual discrimination. Wouldn’t it be nonsensical to legally interfere with how each couple splits their dating costs because men tend to pay more?

In the past, even well-educated Korean women valued housework and child-rearing highly and were willing to take care of the home full-time instead of getting a job. If, for example, only 10% of women originally intended to build a career to get into a high-ranking position and women only occupy 10% of such positions right now, then it doesn’t mean that there is institutional discrimination against women. If you introduce a quota system that makes it mandatory to fill at least 30% of high-ranking public positions with women, even women lacking talent can end up being in charge of an important job, which will harm the entire country. Why would you hand out positions to unqualified women just because other women voluntarily chose to take different paths in life?

Young women’s attitude has changed a lot but there is still a large gap between men and women’s attitudes. According to a survey conducted by a marriage agency in 2007, 40% of single women thought negatively of men who think a dual income is essential. When asked what was the purpose of working after marriage, 60% of men answered “to support my family”. On the other hand, only 12.9% of women said financial support for their family was their motivation, while 43% of them answered “to have a rewarding experience and feel a sense of accomplishment”. According to a survey from another marriage agency, ten years ago only 18% of women wanted to continue working after marriage, the proportion has increased to 74.6% this year. 82% of the women who answered the survey ten years ago might be doing full-time housework unless they were forced to work outside the home due to financial difficulties.

The ‘real’ reason why men have a higher employment rate and income than women, and why it has been ignored until now.

Given their sense of responsibility for their family, men work hard no matter the difficulties. In 2011, there were 23 times more deaths due to industrial accidents among men than women. If you read news about people who commit suicide because they lost or can’t get a job, it is almost all men. According to the paper entitled ‘The effect of job insecurity on suicide’ published by the Korean Social Security Association, job insecurity raises men’s suicide rate but it doesn’t affect women. The paper said, “It is thought to be because, for men, having a stable job is important because they are socially expected to financially support their family, whereas women aren’t expected to take the main financial responsibility. Rather, some women prefer temporary jobs that allow more time for childbirth and parenting.”

While the degree varies from country to country, it is known that men are generally more achievement-oriented than women, which contributes to men’s higher suicide rates. According to a paper published by the Korean Psychology Association in 2009, the effect of job achievement on happiness was found to be 43% higher for men than for women in Korea. Even if there is no gender discrimination at work, the people who desperately work hard tend to be men, who then end up earning more income and getting to higher positions than women.

Such differences can be easily observed in the workplace. According to the paper entitled ‘Corporate managers’ perceptions about male and female new employees’ job skills’ published in the Journal of Corporate Education in 2011, male employees fared better than female counterparts in the assessment categories of personality, communication, interpersonal relationships, and cooperation, with statistically meaningful differences. There was no category where female employees showed an advantage over men. Male employees performed significantly better in interpersonal relationships and cooperation.

Such different job attitudes naturally result in different employment rates and incomes. You can’t just point at the difference as a basis for claiming sexual discrimination. You can even use the data to argue that there is social discrimination against men.

If you misinterpret the employment gender gap data, it can create a ridiculous situation where a wife, who enjoys her hobbies by spending money on classes at a community center, is regarded as a victim of sexual discrimination, while her husband struggles at work to make money for her. If you really want to know whether women’s low employment rate and income is due to sexual discrimination, you have to know whether they are unhappy because they work less and make less money for themselves. One indicator is how much money men and women spend on themselves. Another one can be how they enjoy their hobbies in their free time. Then you can begin to see whether wives’ low employment rate and income actually means that they enjoy their life with the money their husbands are earning. If men and women spend roughly the same amount of money and have similar amounts of free time, would that mean there is gender equality? Since they enjoy the same amount but men have to do more work, it would actually be discrimination against men.

Remove the prejudice that forces you to see everything as discrimination against women and recognize the reality as it is.

What’s urgently needed for us is to move away from the one-sided policy that gives women absolute privileges. We first need to accurately assess the reality of sexual discrimination. I spent just a few days to find these examples of biased use of the data. The government, media, and civic groups have blindly insisted that only women are the victims of dicrimination.

They need to restore a balance in how the data is being represented in order to know the reality. Besides the aforementioned expense and free time comparison, they can multilaterally approach the issue with indicators such as gender ratio for public workers and teachers who work in remote rural areas, how much difficulty they are willing to endure, how motivated they are, gender ratio for ‘3D’ [dirty, dangerous, demeaning] work, suicide rate analysis, etc. They should meticulously analyze the existing data and conduct new surveys to find the missing piece of the puzzle.

The government shouldn’t just pour money into programs to support women. They should also invest in accurately assessing whether their policies are causing side effects due to the false interpretation of reality. If their direction is incorrect, the money they spend only gets us farther from our goal. If they use a female quota system for limited job positions, more men will be pushed out and even take extreme measures against their own life, which can lead to a social disaster. They have to at least guarantee ‘fair’ competition. If they try to reverse the policy later, the social costs will be too big. Once the government grasps the accurate situation, they can focus their resources on more critical situations where there is discrimination against women.

Korean media should also stop with the mantra that “women are badly discriminated against in Korea” and begin to look at the situation critically. In 2011, the World Economic Forum ranked Korea at 107th among nations when it came to gender equality, while the UN Development Program ranked Korea at 11th in their separate report on the same subject. Korean media covered the WEF ranking far more often than the UN figures. They shouldn’t deliver nonsensical data uncritically and we also shouldn’t take it uncritically. Whenever there is a report about young people committing violent crimes, everyone talks about the importance of ‘home discipline’. Then why do they always depreciate the value of parenting and try to drive moms to work whenever there is a report about sexual discrimination?

On August 5th, SBS reported that the social cost caused by women dropping out of the job market amounted to 60 trillion won. It’s hard to believe such a figure since it is 17.5% of the Korean government’s yearly budget. They didn’t directly mention the source but it seems to be from the LG Economic Research Institute. They simply calculated for the hypothetical scenario where 4.17 million full-time housewives are suddenly all employed. That means there should be 4.17 million more job openings in the first place. In reality, 4.17 million workers will have to get laid off to make room for them and there will be social costs for the children whose moms begin to work outside. Both the researchers who made absurd assumptions and SBS, who irresponsibly created a misleading impression among their viewers, should be criticized.

Absurd causal analysis and policies; critical side effects

It doesn’t stop with the socioeconomic issues. Recently, the government strengthened regulations and punishment for pornography. Do they think if people watch porn, they confuse the reality with porn and end up attempting sexual crimes? If that is the logic behind it, what about all the dramas and movies where people are beaten up or stabbed to death? Isn’t that worse? According to some foreign research teams, prevalence of pornography tends to reduce sexual crimes. The government is full of naive ideas that go against the scientific evidence.

MOGEF reported in 2010 that Korea’s sexual crime rate was very high compared to foreign countries. They included a nonsensical figure that indicated Korea has a sexual crime rate 27 times higher than Japan, because they wanted to support the predetermined conclusion that Korea’s sexual crime rate is high. In porn heaven Japan, the producers of porn animations aren’t subject to any legal punishment, but in Korea, just making subtitles for such animations is considered to be a serious sexual offence on par with raping a minor. Last year, 37 Korean university students were arrested for distributing subtitles for animated Japanese porn that featured underage characters. They will be sentenced to a jail term of five years or more according to the reformed Child and Youth Protection Act, even though there were only animated characters involved and nobody was hurt. As they print out laws blindly, they even came to a dilemma where they have to sentence a female student who distributed her own nude pictures to a jail term of five years or more. This year, a local court even filed a constitutional appeal to the Constitutional Court against the Child and Youth Protection Act. MOGEF plans to express the opinion that there is no violation of the constitution.

The need to raise awareness for discrimination against men

Deceased former Man of Korea representative Seong Jae-ki tried to raise awareness against the MOGEF, women’s rights groups and our society’s bias in favor of claims of discrimination against women, while calling attention to discrimination against men. But it was overwhelming for him to cope with it alone. His death was caused by his desperation, a desperation that even made him risk his own life to raise awareness of such social problems.

In Korea, 28 men commit suicide everyday, twice as often as women. Wrong policies can criminalize a man who would’ve been fine if he was living in a foreign country and unfairly push him aside in the job market just for being a man, driving him to extreme measures. If we pay attention to Seong’s message and reflect on our gender inequality problems wisely, wouldn’t it be possible to stop men from making the tragic decision to end their own lives?

Comments from Ilbe:

힘차라힘:

But raising children is still a big obstacle to women entering the work force. This situation cannot be just blamed on women. It is unfair that it is women who have to quit their job to raise children. Our country needs more child care facilities. Because child care is shitty, it’s hard for parents to be away from their children. Even the acceptance rate for some kindergartens is ridiculously competitive;; Creating a proper child care system should come before criticism of women. And men should spend more time parenting. This means not just playing with their kids, guys should also make baby formula and stuff but they still don’t do their part well in housework.

中央갈매기:

Those Muslim countries where raped women are beaten to death for being rape victims are ranked higher than Korea, ke ke ke ke. Do those bitches really buy into what the rankings say?

MooMyung:

I’m dumbfounded. Let me tell you why the WEF stats are retarded. Is Korea really worse in gender equality than those higher-ranked countries where even polygamy is accepted? Everyone knows Korean women enjoy their rights just fine. Then why was Korea ranked so low? That is because of the stupidly simple comparison between male and female figures. Do you know how high Korea would rank if they rate institutional support for women? Why are those poor countries ranked high in the WEF stats? Because while both men and women struggle, women do more things. What about those developed European countries? Their women are fundamentally independent unlike Kimchi bitches. A retarded attitude among Korean women is the problem. Korea’s gender equality is one of the worst? What bullshit.

박하사탕:

In underdeveloped African or Middle Eastern countries, men just eat and poop while they force women to go work. Then, Korea with all the full-time housewives ends up ranking lower than those countries in that gender index. This is a truly retarded methodology. It doesn’t take into account why women in that country do not participate in the work force as much as men. It doesn’t care about any social and cultural factors. No wonder you get a shitty ranking like that.

0ㅠ0:

Serious problems caused by feminists:
1. Leftist-oriented economic collapse.
2. Destroying the stable family model + promoting double income families and competition between genders = increased divorce rate + less married women — low birth rate + lack of military personnel.
3. Men who used to be in aggressive pursuit of marriage begin to avoid marriage + increased misogyny — low birth rate.
4. Criminalizing common men + destroying clarity and fairness of laws.
5. Attempt to punish only consumers of the sex trade.

The right-wing government should neutralize the leftists, and then sweep off feminists as a priority.

샤우트:

Just use your common sense. Saying Korea’s gender equality is worse than India and many African countries, does that make sense to you fucking retarded bitch, Minister Cho Yun-seon? In your next life, please be born as a male insect so I can stomp on you.

개장:

Fucking bitches are bullshitting. Most Korean pussies’ mentality is that men should buy a house and a car and make money and it is natural that only men serve in the military draft. Then they cry foul about discrimination against women. I’m so dumbfounded. They don’t care about duties but they foam at the mouth for their rights. This is the beggar-like nature of Korean pussies. It’s not that you guys are being discriminated. Stop masturbating. Is there any discrimination for real after all? Fucking bitches.

안산시민:

Cho Yun-seon retracted her own statement that the May 16 incident was a revolution and later called it a coup. When President Lee Myung-bak was arguing for abolishing the MOGEF, she was one of the most prominent pro-LMB figures. For her own success, she throws her faith or loyalty out the door. She is a typical opportunistic Kimchi bitch. Yoon Chang-jung, Chae Dong-wook, and now Cho Yun-seon… Lady Gaka [Pres. Park Geun-hey] is a great politician herself but she doesn’t seem to be very lucky with her people. Bluntly speaking, she doesn’t seem to have a sharp eye when it comes to the people around her.

도롱농농:

Until men’s suicide rate becomes equal to that of women, implement a welfare policy for men, you fucking Ministry of Women bitches. Those brainless bitches who blindly advocate 50:50. Until men’s life expectancy becomes equal to that of women, implement a welfare policy for men, you fucking Ministry of Women bitches.

배고파배고파:

We already experienced it during the mad cow disease hoax. If a trend forms in Korea, resistance is futile. Public media that is supposed to objectively stick to accurate facts aired false reports. When a conscientious group tried to speak out, a witch hunt followed them. The Ministry of Women is doing the same power projection.

Comments from DogDrip:

오징오징:

For education and health status alone, Korea’s gender equality is supposed to easily rank on the high side.

텐구:

The statistics from some Western organization that placed Korea at 107th or 108th in gender equality are ridiculous if you take a close look at it. Their methodology doesn’t reflect the reality of Korean society at all. Korean government, media and civic groups can easily figure out how ridiculous it is, but they never bother analyzing it. They just go on a media campaign parroting those ridiculous claims.

공구리:

If you look at some highly ranked countries, their female-to-male ratio for enrollment in primary education is like 38%:33% where the number for females is higher, which is all that matters in this ranking. In Korea, it’s like 98%:99%. For employment, sex workers are not counted in Korea. Even some countries where thirteen-year-old girls prostitute themselves are ranked higher than Korea in gender equality. From the very beginning, tt doesn’t make sense at all.

초식곰:

The Ministry of Women does seem like a group of harmful beasts undermining national interest, almost as if they are North Korean spies.

너이리와봐봐:

Whoa, this article is really well backed up with data. But whenever I read articles like this, I think it is a futile attempt. Do you think chicks will read an article like that? Do you think they will understand if you rationally explain it? Rationality and data are a moot point for hardcore Christians and chicks. Look, even a minister representing Korean women says she has it worse than an insect. They just don’t get it.

마그도나르도:

Look at the Minister of Women yapping her mouth, ke ke ke ke ke. This isn’t the Joseon period. Why is this crazy bitch indulging in her victim complex? ke ke ke ke ke.

네오디스:

I tried posting this article on other humor sites. They bashed it just because it is from Media Watch whose representative is Byun Hee-jae and it quoted Seong Jae-ki… It’s just like those leftist school teachers who tell you not to read Chosun, JoongAng and Dong-a newspapers and to read Hankyoreh instead, then tell us we are supposed to look at both sides and make our own conclusions. They are trying too hard to dismiss the argument by distracting us.

보픈도어:

If our gender equality was truly ranked 108th, women would be treated like nothing more than machines that give birth to children. How would someone like her have even become a minister? They still have too much of a victim complex…

쥬쥬쥬쥬쟉:

Is there another boslam [“boji(pussy) + Islam” meaning women are religiously put on a pedestal] country where women’s life is easy like in Korea? They can avoid most responsibilities and duties but they are quick to claim their rights. There are heaps of women who have no qualms about leeching off of men in Korea. *ha ha*

S2zl존2S:

ke ke ke ke ke, I think the Ministry of Women is actually undermining women’s status because they treat women as if they are disabled.

Showing that netizens also recognize the double standards in how Korean conservative male netizens treat women, comic strips about the topic uploaded to the Ilbe online community have also recently become popular, with close to five thousand upvotes.

From Ilbe:

Ilbe-hypocrisy

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  • Webster

    This report uses four criteria; “economic participation and opportunity”, “educational attainment”, “health and survival”, and “political empowerment”

    Which obviously renders moot this guy’s obsession with forced circumcision and “honor killings.” Why do men [in Korea] resist this so much? It’s like people who say racist things, refusing to accept they’re racist.

    • Webster

      Furthermore, from looking at the data, it’s clear these rankings are based on parity between men and women WITHIN a given country, not between different countries.

    • Sillian

      The criticism seems to be about the misuse of the data rather than the data itself. How many people do you think will know the full story when they hear about rankings like this? “108th out of 135? Korean women’s life must be absolutely horrible!” might be a very common response.

      • Webster

        Right, it’s about not correctly interpreting the data. Korea ranks low in gender equality, which in the literature I’m sure they conceptualized as “economic participation and opportunity”, “educational attainment”, “health and survival”, and “political empowerment.”

        Anyways, this isn’t just someone not being able to comprehend the data. This is about people refusing to believe it. You don’t need to know the full story. The point is that opportunity/achievement of women vis-a-vis men in Korea is low.

        • Sillian

          For example, Lesotho’s 37/23 ranked first while Korea’s 95/96 ranked at 91st in one of the criteria in the table. It is 1st vs 91st but everyone will agree that Korea’s situation is more desirable. This is a good example of how the ranking can mislead you when you don’t know the ‘full story’. I believe everyone knows that there is a considerable gap between genders in Korea when it comes to economic and political standings. The question is how much of it is due to actual ‘discrimination’.

          • Webster

            I’m not going to have another argument on this site about statistics…
            The data only shows you what you looked for to begin with, nothing more or less.

            They clearly stated in the study (http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GenderGap_Report_2012.pdf) that they are looking at Gaps not Levels. That is, they are creating a measure that ignores level of development for the sake of honing in on the actual gaps between genders within a given society.

            It’s a pretty simple thing to comprehend. One can argue with their methodology, but stop painting the results to be something they’re not. It’s silly.

          • Sillian

            You don’t have to repeat yourself about how the data was actually compiled. The article’s point is how some people who cannot bother checking the methodology unlike you and me would take the rankings the wrong way with false assumptions. The article does have some good points.

          • Webster

            His points are really poorly based, however.
            To give you an example, if a study looked at the popularity of smartphones, comparing Android and iOS, but they conceptualized popularity as being how many users switch from one operating system to the other, would it be sensible for someone to then conclude (from results indicating that Android was more popular) that more people prefer Android?

            No, because the way they measured popularity had nothing to do with preference. Unless they included a way to measure preference, and you were able to run analysis between the two variables, you could not say that with much confidence.

            The ONLY real conclusion you could draw from the study, is that Android was more popular. Moreover, it would be acceptable to dispute that popularity if you were indignant that it measured popularity at all. Maybe it was discreetly measuring satisfaction or faith in the operating system, etc

          • Sillian

            I think everyone should take a course in statistical interpretation in high school seriously.

          • Webster

            Amen!

          • chucky3176

            Like Webster says, it’s a measurement of gaps, not a comparison of each countries. I wouldn’t get hung up on the rankings, it’s basically meaningless.

            It’s the methodology which is highly suspect to me though.

    • chucky3176

      I basically understand this report. But couple of things I’m really puzzled is why South Korea is ranked so low in educational attainment and healt/survival. 99% of all Koreans finish high school, and 65 to 75% of all men and women go onto universities – there are no gender discrimination in admissions to higher level of learning. Why Korea ranked so low? What about health and survival? Korean women’s life expectancy one of the highest in the world at 85 years old, while the Korean men only live to 78. And there are no discrimination in health care against women. Don’t understand that one either. But OK, we can agree about economic opportunity and the number of female ministers in Korean government, I agree that the gender gap is large. But what’s up with the other two criteria?

      • Webster

        Honestly, to know that you’d need to look at the full report and look at how they conceptualized these variables (and subsequently, how they measured them). From what I gather, the overall goal of the report was to make the measurement independent from a given country’s level of development. In that sense, this is more about getting at attitudes (most directly in policy?).
        http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GenderGap_Report_2012.pdf
        pg.11 Gaps vs. Levels

        “The Index is designed to measure gender-based gaps
        in access to resources and opportunities in individual
        countries rather than the actual levels of the available
        resources and opportunities in those countries.”

        • chucky3176

          Without reading all 381 pages of this report which doesn’t come on my screen properly for some reason, why do you think the UN says Korean women are not being educated equally with men, and that the women are less healthy or getting less than equal medical treatment than men?

          • chucky3176

            After further reading the Korean netizen comments, I think I can answer my own question now. It’s because they’re taking into consideration, women born before 1950, when Korea did indeed had discrimination against females in schools. I bet they counted all those grannies alive today, who couldn’t go to school when they were kids, because their parents at that time, wouldn’t let them go because they were girls.

            I can’t believe this report does not take into consideration, the changing circumstances over generations. I guess Korea developed so fast that the international organizations cannot keep up with the quickly changing data, or they’re getting fed wrong information from Korean civic rights groups.

          • Webster

            When you want to understand a study, you can’t just look at the result. You MUST, MUST, MUST read and understand their methods section.

            From a brief skimming of the material, it appears that they are looking at the variance in the gap between gender groups over time (i.e. Gender Inequality vs Women Empowerment).

            As for Educational Attainment:

            pg. 12 “In this subindex, the gap between women’s and men’s current access to education is captured through ratios of women to men in primary-, secondary- and tertiary-level education. A longer-term view of the country’s ability to educate women and men in equal numbers is captured through the ratio of the female literacy rate to the male literacy rate.”

            Health and Survival:

            pg. 12 “This subindex provides an overview of the differences between women’s and men’s health. To do this, we use two variables. The first variable is the sex ratio at birth, which aims specifically to capture the phenomenon of “missing women” prevalent in many countries with a strong son preference. Second, we use the gap between women’s and men’s healthy life expectancy, calculated by the World Health Organization. This measure provides an estimate of the number of years that women and men can expect to live in good health by taking into account the years lost to violence, disease, malnutrition or other relevant factors.”

            *Table 1 on pg. 13 lists all their variables and how they’ve conceptualized and measured them

            Furthermore, the explanation outlined above is odd. It’s as if to say, what happened in Korea prior to 1950 doesn’t count and has had no lingering effects on contemporary Korean society…Though, I digress because that would be an all together different study.

          • chucky3176

            Since I can’t read the report myself, I’m still puzzled, even more so now after reading your extracts.

            If they’re not taking into consideration, women born before 1950, then how the hell they come to the conclusion that Korean females are less literate than men, when as far as I know, the literacy rate in Korea is almost 100%, minus the recent immigrants and the old women/men born prior to 1960. And even if there is such a gender gap in literacy rates, I don’t think the numbers are even great enough to even matter.

            And what about the gap of heath and life expectancy? Korean women outlive Korean men by far – 7 years. If anything, the gap is in favor of the Korean women for this criteria. The gender gap in sex ratio I can understand due to the past practice of Koreans aborting female babies to get male babies. But this too is under attack now, with Korea’s sex ratio now going back to normal, and the current preference for female babies, or even no babies. In terms of years lost to violence, Korean men have suffered thousands of casualties through wars – so much so that, Korean women, if you take into consideration all the older generation, outnumber men. I’m not saying Korean women’s lives are all rosey in Korea, but the way they paint women’s status seems overly pessimistic to me.

            So if they’re not taking into consideration, older people and older generation, and they’re looking at the current pattern, how the hell are they coming up with these numbers?

          • Webster

            I didn’t say they weren’t…
            I didn’t find that in the report, so I didn’t say much at all about it (other than that circumstances in the 1950s wouldn’t necessarily invalidate findings about contemporary society).

            Furthermore, I’m not sure about the other variables. It’s possible one of us are confusing the two studies? I’m looking solely at the Gender Inequality study (the topic of the above critique). It would be more helpful if you’d point to which chart/data you’re looking at and which variables for health you are looking at?

          • chucky3176

            I’m referring to the page 12 of the WEF report, that you included in your comment. Just by reading that description, I’m much more confused how they arrived at their conclusions. I’m presuming that Korea’s scores has to be really bad for female education and female health/survivability, for South Korea to score so low in the report. I just want to know what this report say about Korea in the education and health of women in Korea, because I’m frankly shocked that they would score so low (I’m presuming they scored them low).

          • Webster

            Ah, I see now. I’d have to look at that…
            It could be that they’re scoring the change not the value (i.e. looking at the extent to which that gap has risen or shrunk not at what the actual difference between men and women is).

          • Webster

            I do think that might may explain it.

            Look in the appendix on pg. 62
            Korea, Rep.
            (females) 74
            (males) 68
            (female to male ratio)1.09
            (rank)16

          • chucky3176

            I’m presuming they’re stating the numbers for life expectancy and sex ratio.

            But as you can see, they’re taking data that’s outdated by at least 30 years for life expectancy and 20 years for sex ratio.

            From top of my head, the up to date, data should really look like this instead

            Korea, Rep.
            (females) 85
            (males) 78
            (female to male ratio)1.05

            Granted, the gap hasn’t narrowed much, as Korean females still outlive Korean males by 6 or 7 years, so it’s a moot point. But the sex ratio in favor of males at birth has come down considerably.

            They should at least use the latest data in any report they draw conclusions from.

          • Webster

            Not if they don’t have representative data from other countries in that same time frame.

            Otherwise, it introduces bias into the study, no?

          • chucky3176

            Very few countries in the world has overwhelmingly revamped their society and economy as Korea has in the last few decades. I’m pretty sure the changes you see in Korean society far outpaces the ones in Africa or India for that matter. So theoretically, using updated data is even more critical where the society is changing rapidly, versus those countries that didn’t change much, so therefore using outdated data isn’t as critical.

          • Webster

            No it isn’t. Because they’re not concerned with the rate of change, rather that it has changed.

          • Sillian

            ‘Healthy life expectancy’ is different from ‘life expectancy’.

            In the report… (pg. 224)

            Korea, Rep.
            Sex ratio at birth: 0.93(f/m) or 1.075(m/f) ranked at 121st
            Healthy life expectancy: 74(f), 68(m) ranked at 1st

            Recently reported sex ratio at birth in Korea is 1.05-1.06 which is within the natural range.

            Korea’s ‘health and survival’ ranked at 78th according to the method used by the WEF report but it’s actually very good in absolute terms.

  • Yes, the comments clearly show why women have a lovely life in Korea. Nothing like being called a bitch for demanding a better life for yourself. Ilbe users are clearly not sexist at all.

    The argument of both certain feminists (who should not be called feminists) and male misogynists about giving less to the opposite sex is beyond me. Women are not to blame for men’s problems. They suffer from the same culprit! We are both, along with LGBTs, victims of patriarchy. Patriarchy is not all men. It’s the men (and some very messed up women) who run the world. And they don’t particularly love either sex or any of the genders.

    Women don’t suffer because men are all evil misogynists, men don’t suffer because women are all bitches. The solution is not to give women’s rights and lives less money, dedication and time. The solution is to give both men’s and women’s problems the same amount of money, dedication and time. To view humans and citizens as humans and citizens.

    “Those bitches are too demanding, they have enough privileges and should stop complaining”. If you say that as a man, women who suffer by being seen as walking vaginas, maids and trophies have every right to kick your ass. If you say it as a woman, men who are seen as walking wallets, sugar-daddies and servants have every right to kick your ass.

    How about people stop blaming the opposite sex and demanding less for them and instead blame those who made these “rules” and demand equal treatment for all based on their own needs and wants?

    • David

      Granted this is a select group of men but the vitriol spewed about women is shocking. Complain about this report in the same line that they write incredibly hateful and misogynistic comments. I am a guy and not a particularly feminist one (in fact I often get called an old cote) but come on. If you have lived and worked in Korea for more than 6 months (and not even read Koreabang) you see the inequality. Of course it was much worse the first time I lived here back in 1985 but you have not “come a long way baby.”

      • The thing is, governments rarely are the ones to be progressive first. And since people in such societies have not yet become progressive enough themselves to push for that change, it happens in baby steps.

        I think globalization is what will slowly help Korean citizens demand for more and more change as time goes by. But Korea stepped into modernity quite late in the game and too fast, so we can’t expect vast changes yet. But you can see they have some very smart and open-minded people too.

        If all goes well, those will increase and they will change their society as time goes by. But it takes a lot of effort, from a lot of people to change things. And at some point and to some degree, the people in charge have to move forward to.

    • SuvinderR

      I don’t know if you noticed, but it takes mean, Machiavellian men to make anything work. That’s why those types run governments and corporations. Injecting feelings like empathy into those places would make them incredibly uncompetitive.

      Second, females buy too much into emotions. The very insistence on equality proves this. Look how much time the feminist scum waste talking about feelings instead of making money/power. There’s not a single issue they have that’s truly worth discussing. Until this changes, male virtues should be privileged before female ones.

  • chucky3176

    I think they’re misunderstanding this report. This report points out the level of gap between men and women within each country, and does not compare the status with other countries. With this in mind, you can have a high human development index, but still a widening gender gap. So obviously Koreans have it far better than the people in underdeveloped northern Africa. But the status of men and women in Korea could be wider in difference due to women choosing to be staty at home moms, than say the status of men and women in Africa where both sexes have to work everyday to gather wood and tend to goats, otherwise they won’t survive.

    I think the readers at Ilbe are confusing the two UN reports. One report is the overall Human Development Index (measuring the overall living conditions including human rights, democracy, and income) which puts South Korea at 12th best in the world just one level behind Canada. And this report, which only measures the income gap between men and women, the level of employment for women, and the level of gap between the men and women participating in politics. And clearly there is a gender gap based on neo-confucianism in Korea that’s probably greater compared to most other countries. I think that the Ilbe readers are simply confusing the gender gap report with the human development report, and missing the point of the report entirely.

    But this doesn’t get the Korean women off the hook entirely. Much of the gender gap is also due to their own choice and decisions.

    • Sillian

      The second column shows the gender index ranking in the UN table.

      • chucky3176

        First of all, that’s a 2011 ranking report. In 2012 HDI report, Korea actually improved to 12th. And yes, the Human Index report also takes into consideration the gender gap report. But you can see that what the UN is doing is, and how they’re breaking down the rankings.

        • Sillian

          Pay close attention to the table. Korea ranked at 11th in 2011. The UN report uses their own gender inequality index.

          • chucky3176

            Ah now I see. My mistake. So the question then is, why the UN report ranks Korea’s gender inequality at 11th, while the WEF, which I’m presuming are global women’s rights organization ranks Korea at 105th.

            Why is there such a gap in these two reports?

            My immediate emotional guess? The women’s group in Korea fudged the data so bad, because they wanted to make Korea look bad as much as possible, to advance their own group’s agenda. This reminds me of the Korean women’s rights ministry that lied several years ago, who claimed that 2 million South Korean girls under 13 were engaged in sex traffic to adults- which on paper, made South Korea the worst child sex peddling country on the earth. Pressed to reveal the source where they got those numbers, they apologized and withdrew the numbers. Then few years later, they did it again, when they claimed that one million Korean women were living overseas working as prostitutes. And once again, pressed to reveal the source, they admit the report is bogus and withdraws the report.
            They are killing their own credibility and undermining their own goals.

          • David

            I think they are measuring different things. The UN tends to measure on an absolute scale (although this is just a general comment on reports of theirs in the past, I have not examined the details of this particular report). I suspect they have some very different criteria in the WEF report.

          • Sillian

            By now, you must know it but ‘WEF’ stands for ‘World Economic Forum’. It’s in the article.

  • commander

    The death of Man of Korea representative Seong Jae-gi in Netizons’ callous responses to his call for more attention to men’s rights, and farcical comments by the minister of women and family at an world economic forum highlights how much divided Korean society is over gender equality.

    The self-styled men rights crusader tried a deadly jumping into the Han river to appeal to the public to chip in funds for his organization, while the minister representing South Korea smeared the national reputation downright, without vetting the date ahe cited to claim the dire discrimination against women in Korea.

    In a country where an unemployed man is treated as a “meaningless surplus,” and most of financial burdens in dating, marriage weighs on men, a balanced perspective is an imperative: more rights come with more duties.

    Women tend to make a mountain of complains but vigoroulsy reluctant to take on arduous tasks at work speaking of a invisible ceiling against women’s promotion at firms.

    Women get disgruntled about sexual objectification by men but envy other women wh o get married with affluent men who choose female appearances over anything else and get determined to go on a diet for a slimmer body even going as far as to have a catastrophic double jaw surgery.

    Feminist groups are overrepresented with the vast majority of men remaining silent.

    The time has come for a more balanced approach to be taken on a national level.

    • Kate

      Yeah well I was subjected to a lot and I mean alot of sexual objectification in Korea and I wasn’t trying to get a husband at all (already married). I’ve never had plastic surgery ether. But men treated me like a walking sex toy for them when I lived there and it abot destroyed me .

      • commander

        That’s regrettable.

        My point is that not All Women are materialistic and obsessed with cosmetic surgery.

        My contention is that all the blame for gender discrimination against women should not be shifted onyo the shoulder of men.

        As much as some guys with distorted perception of gender do terrible things, some women unwittingly help reproduce discrimination against women.

  • mr.wiener

    Tanzania and Senegal huh?
    Wow, not too shabby.

  • Guest

    the comics were funny. and so true.

  • terriblemovie

    Gender equality does exist in Korea but the blame lies mostly on women themselves.

    South Korea(female-to-male ratio)

    Literacy rate= .99(equal)
    Primary education .99(equal)
    Secondary education .99(equal)
    Tertiary education .72(UNEQUAL)

    The reason why Korean women are less likely to get jobs as doctors, engineers, lawyers and CEOs is because they are less educated per capita. Its not discrimination that prevents women from entering college. Its test scores and effort. A significantly higher percentage of women don’t even bother to pursue an education above secondary(high school). This alone explains why men make more per capita. Its not discrimination, its choice. Why study when you can just marry some hard working rich guy?

    Marriage and child birth has nothing to do with the lower tertiary education participation. The average age of marriage and first childbirth is 29 years old. Tertiary education starts right after high school. Korean men must spend 2 years in the army, that doesn’t prevent them from going to college.

    • terriblemovie

      Speaking of which, I find it hilarious whenever stay at home moms(in Korea) complain about how difficult it is to rear a child. Nowadays, rearing a child consists of spending your husbands hard earn money in order to send your child to cram schools for +6 hours a day while you eat ice cream and watch k-dramas all day. If you’re wondering why South Korea produces so many sappy romance dramas, its because house wives are pretty much the only demographic that gets to watch tv in abundance. The children are too busy in school and hagwon, the men are too busy in the army or working. Korean men work the longest hours in the OECD which results in much shorter lifespans.

      Average life expectancy
      Korean women: 85 years(1 year short of being the highest in the world)
      Korean men: 77 years(6 years short of being the highest in the world)

      This isn’t a jab at all women. Just the ones who believe they are entitled victims.

      • eff no

        You obviously have never had children if you think you can sit around on your ass all day.

        • terriblemovie

          Who do you think has it worse?

          Person 1: Studied his butt off in order to go to college and get a decent job. Forced to serve 2 years in the military. Works nearly 16 hours a day to make ends meet. Rarely gets a vacation and is constantly stressed.

          Person 2: Stay at home mom who enjoys spending person 1’s money. Rather than actually raising the kids, she instead sends them off to 3000 different types of hagwons- piano lessons, taekwondo, math academy, TOEFL preparation classes, etc. Her day consists of watching k-dramas, gossiping with friends, and going shopping.

          You may think the following example is an exaggeration but this is very very common. The husband works all day. The child studies all day. The wife stays at home and watches tv all day.

          • lonetrey / Dan

            I’d upvote this, but I get the vague sensation that it’s not completely true.

            I’d downvote this, but I get the slight premonition that many cases are like this.

            :/

          • terriblemovie

            You mad?

          • lonetrey / Dan

            I’m more neutral if anything. Or equally against both sides of the argument.

          • alabamaBAM

            You know who I think has it worst of all? Me, for having to breathe your hot air.

  • bumfromkorea

    If we’re talking about economic gender inequality, then I’m in disbelief – Korea’s only 108th? I was expecting somewhere in the 200s.

    Maybe when companies quit firing women for being pregnant, and maybe when 회식s don’t have female employees forced to sing and dance like they’re fucking 기생s, then we’ll talk. Fix the workplace culture, or shut the fuck up.

    • chucky3176

      That’s the where the stats for the economic participation comes into play. I agree with you that those are problems. But you have to look at this in the context of the WEF gender report. The economic participation rate is just one criteria out of a series of other factors that the report examines, and uses to come up with a total picture. On the other hand, sexual harassment at work (which I agree with you is a problem), is not even taken into consideration in this report.

    • David

      Well, they only had 135 countries in the study.

  • alabamaBAM

    Every single comment so far is a tldr.

    • lonetrey / Dan

      YEP, PRETTY MUCH.

      Though, I did try to skim it a bit. I’ll probably go back to read it all. :(

      • David

        Quite honestly I spend a lot of time reading them all and they are all quite horrible.

  • comm

    looks like South Korea is one of the few countries that waste time pretending that men and women are equal.
    It’s useless, most women don’t work, where is the incentive? It’s human nature that men make money and women take care of the children.

    • alabamaBAM

      You can say that again! Oh, you did.

  • comm

    looks like South Korea is one of the few countries that don’t waste time pretending that men and women are equal.
    It’s
    useless, most women don’t work, where is the incentive? It’s human
    nature that men make money and women take care of the children.

    • Women do work. I gave up a job in childcare, to guess what? look after children. I once had a job as a cleaner…..

  • alabamaBAM

    Chin up, South Korea, and look on the positive side: This means you ranked around 27th in global gender inequality!

  • Kate

    As a foreign woman who lived in Korea, I knew first hand the inequality. I came back to the USA 1 1/2 months ago, why?

    Because I had spent a total of 12 months in Korea. Within that 12 months, I had 1 attempted rape, 1 sexual assault, 1 rape (my rapist was a korean man, total stranger and actually he is awaiting sentencing) , groped so many times I don’t even know, I had men follow me, I had men take my picture without asking (once I woke up on the subway to find a man taking my picture), I had men harrass me for sex, and of course the leering

    I spent 12 months in Korea, and all of this happened to me. The rape happened in August and I couldn’t do it anymore, I couldn’t live in a country where men were treatinf me like theirpersonal walki sex toy, men whom I diddidn’t even know. I never been treated like this I’m the USA but in Korea, I couldn’t even go out without being subjected to something from men.

    I am never going back to Korea.

    • Sillian

      You experienced all that? Damn… That’s absolutely horrible. I’m sorry to hear that. I personally know some foreign women who have lived in Korea but never experienced anything serious like that. It sounds pervs were flocking to you probably because your looks stand out. That’s horrible…

      • Kate

        It was. I am small (5″4, 113 lbs), very very pale, young, foreign, and pretty. I am like a pervert magnet.

        • dk2020

          I wish you could have stayed and maybe drawn attention to what happened.. foreign women getting raped would have caused an international uproar like in India .. shit like that is intolerable, ROK is a 1st world nation but the byuntaes and gender inequality is still 3rd world ..

          • Franz

            yeah, its only a problem if foreign women get raped, it gives korea a bad image.

    • dk2020

      WTF?!?!?! .. sorry to hear that Kate .. I hope u get justice ..

      • terriblemovie

        Lets use some police data and logic to refute Kates story-

        Fact 1: Kate claims that she was in Korea from March 2013-August 2013.

        Fact 2: Kate is a teacher.

        Fact 3: Kate is a 26 year old American who lived in Yeoungdeungpo.

        Fact 4: Kate claims she reported the rape to the police and that the rapist is being sentenced.

        Fact 5: Western teachers being raped in Korea is very very rare. So rare in fact that such incidents make national news.

        Fact 6: Only ONE instance of a western teacher being raped occurred during March 2013-August 2013. It happened to a CANADIAN woman who wasn’t 26 years old in Banpo-dong.

        Story = busted

        • terriblemovie

          Kate, I know you’re reading this.

          Tell me month of 2013 you were raped.

          • What is this? Trial by internet .

          • jonnyg433

            MY GOD – you are so disgusting, creepy, and demented. I cannot believe you would actually question this girl’s experience. Absolutely NO ONE has any problem believing that a Korean man raped her….they stalk foreign women constantly…. it happens ALL THE TIME.

            But thanks for proving — in one demented, creepy post — that you Koreans are so fucked up sometimes that it is almost farcical — Indeed – it’s like a TERRIBLE MOVIE.

          • mr.wiener

            Oh for god’s sake. This is just over the top.

          • alabamaBAM

            Yeah… Anybody got a ten-foot pole I could borrow real quick? I’ll give it back…immediately…unused.

        • Germandude

          You should change your name from terriblemovie into terribleinvestigation…

        • Tova Rischi

          In the US, rape victims may agree to a sort of privacy protection agreement. The case is then prevented from being discussed outside legal confines (court etc) under penalty of law. If such a thing exists in Korea, then wouldn’t it be possible that the police don’t have accurate figures in order to protect the dignity and privacy of the victims?

        • Stevie B

          Holy fuck, You are one sorry fucking specimen.

          Let me tell you something: Almost every single non-Korean woman I know here (and pretty much all of the Korean ones too) have at least one story of having to deal with unwanted sexual attention from Korean men. Just amongst my circle of friends, I directly know two foreign women who have been raped by Korean men, and several more who have suffered attempted rapes and indecent assaults, including having men break into their apartments in the middle of the night. None of these incidents have been reported in the press. Why? Because who the fuck would care? If you were to report every such incident, there’d be little to no room to report anything else.

          I’m going to assume that you’re either very young or very retarded, and give you a little piece of advice: When a woman claims she has been raped, the correct response is to offer some understanding and empathy, and perhaps to spend a few moments reflecting on what it is about society that allows certain individuals to violate others and deprive them of their dignity and sense of personal safety in such a cruel way. The incorrect response is to immediately rubbish their story and then attempt to disprove it using the most fuckwitted bit of detective work that the internet has ever seen – EVEN IF the idea of a foreign women being raped jars with your perception of your homeland as a harmonious and prelapsarian Eden in which all women are treated as gentle and gracious creatures of mystique and all men are courteous, honorable princes. Alright? Please try to take note of this and learn from it. It will assist you greatly in looking like less of a cunt.

    • mr.wiener

      Hope all is well with you and the family back in the states.

      • Kate

        It is, , things are getting better, I am getting better.

    • linette lee

      Wow.. I am shocked to hear this. I am truly very sorry. I hope you are ok. Be strong and move on. Don’t think about it or talk to your friend to let it out. Don’t keep it inside.

    • terriblemovie

      Where did you live in Korea? A penitentiary? An army barracks for males only?

      If what you say is true, then you must be really really really unlucky. Rape exists in Korea(obviously) but its nowhere even close to as prevalent as in the US, much less places like Somalia and Zimbabwe.

      To have all of that happen in the span of 1 year is insane. Yours is a very unique case. Their are plenty of attractive caucasian woman who have been living in Korea for over a decade who were never once groped.

      • Kate

        Actually rape and sexual assault and harrassment are very common in Korea and a lot goes un reported because of the stigma against the victim. After the rape my korean family wouldn’t even look at me or talk to me. They wanted to pretend it didn’t happen, I had brought shame. I had literally zero support in Korea. After the rape no one talked to me or looked at me or told me it’d be ok or offer any comfort. My husband failed to be there for me too. So I took myself and child back to the usa alone.

        The amount of attention I recieved from men was ridiculous and I never felt safe especially at night. I don’t know about other women but I know what happened to me and I know I’m never going back.

        • Sifl

          I hope you don’t mind me asking, but did all of this happen to you in the city or more like the countryside?

          • who the fuck cares dude she said she had a super tough time at Korea it doesn’t really matter cause the people there have wrong mentality about women, chauvinism is rampant, and it needs to be killed. it’s like dealing with fucking north korea sometimes south korea and north korea both same fucking gooks (I can say it cuz I’m Korean).

          • dk2020

            Dude, why don’t you move to Korea and get into politics to try and change it??

            Complaining and whining from foreigners, gyopos, hapas, adoptees isn’t really doing much and it won’t change unless they become politically empowered.. and no, I don’t believe Korean society will crumble anytime soon .. same with North Korea ..

          • I’m assuming there aren’t a lot of subway in the countryside.

        • jesus…I’m so sorry to hear this. I’d fucking smash those filthy bastards. I’m very angered to read about all of this. Just know that it’s important to always research, know if certain region is safe in Korea. I can’t believe know one has even tried to comfort you or console you on this matter. What you need to do is immediately seek therapist help. Then they will give you advice on what action you should take further. Best of luck.

        • dk2020

          So run away and never come back is your solution Kate? What about your husband and your kid if they wanted to go back to Korea? I’m really disappointed in how your Korean fam reacted, but if that happened to my loved one I couldn’t rest until there was justice ..

          • longb

            dude, her chid is an infant, her husband bailed on her in her darkest hour, and it sounds like her inlaws treated her like crap after she was raped.haulin a$$ back to the U. S was only sane thing to do. Only an idiot would stay in korea under those conditions! So sorry to hear what happened to you Kate. This is true. ” Time makes the unbearable, bearable ” hang in there !!!!!!

          • dk2020

            Dude, even though I’m gyopo I would like to think there are support centers in Korea for rape victims .. everybody is sympathetic but words off the internets and condemning Korea doesn’t really do much ..

            The Ministry of Gender Equality and Family runs 30 relief centers for victims of sexual, domestic and school violence. There are three types ― One-stop Support Centers for victims of sexual and school violence (15), the Sun-flower Children Centers (8), and Sun-flower Women and Children Centers (7).

            The one-stop centers and women’s centers offer help to victims of sexual, domestic and school violence as well as victims of sex trafficking. They have free comprehensive counseling, investigative work, medical care and legal advice and operate 24/7.

            The centers do not employ translators, but the workers present can at times communicate with foreign victims, depending on the center. The ministry said if communication is difficult or impossible, some centers will call translators.

            Victims should call 1899-3075 immediately after the attack and they will be connected to the center nearest their location. According to the ministry, 22,573 victims visited the centers last year, an increase from 11,134 in 2008.

            Locations include four in Seoul in Songpa-gu, Dongjak-gu, Mapo-gu and Jongno-gu; one in Busan in Seo-gu; two in Daegu in Seo-gu and Jung-gu; two in Gwangju in Dong-gu; and one in Jeju.

            Also, the Korea Sexual Violence Relief Center offers help to victims in English and Korean. They provide counseling and support for victims, including medical and legal advice. The center can be reached at (02) 338-2890~2, http://www.sisters.or.kr or [email protected].

            Programs created exclusively for foreign victims have appeared in recent years as well. A new program in Seoul called Seoul Survivor Services aims to be that critical link between foreign victims, the police and medical centers.

            Co-founder Ada Long, who is a U.S.-trained advocate, said she started it to fill in the gap in victim services for English-speakers. Upon arriving in Korea, she looked for programs to volunteer for but was turned down because she couldn’t speak Korean.

            “And then it didn’t take me until a year later, I was like: Wait a minute. If I can’t do it in Korean, what about the people who speak English? Where can they go?” she said.

            For now, Seoul Survivor Services just handles referrals, but it hopes in the future to start up a hotline, conduct community outreach programs and be able to help victims in every aspect. They can be reached by emailing [email protected] or visiting their Facebook page, “Seoul Survivor Services.”

          • Emma

            Absolutely LOVE that you are spreading this information! More people need to see it. Though, next time, maybe say that you got it from an article in The Korea Herald. ; ) And provide a link to the rest of the article.

            And I’ll just say, the reason I wrote this article was mostly because foreigners are largely unaware of these services. I only found the KSVRC when I called to report my case to the U.S. Embassy, and I’ve been here for nearly 6 years. The rest, I only found out because I was writing the story on foreign victims of sexual assault. I interviewed a lot of foreign victims who had all been in Korea for varying lengths (anywhere from 1 to 4 years) and none of them had heard of any of these resources.

            So spread the word! There are resources available. I don’t know how anyone could go through that sort of thing alone.

          • dk2020

            Good work Emma .. foreigners are probably unaware of the multicultural policy also .. I feel foreigners, expats, migrant wives etc .. should all band together for the greater good ..

          • Emma

            That’s for sure. ^_^ And I like to think it takes everyone, Koreans included, working together to make a change. Unfortunately, foreigners are not the only ones who deal with sexual violence here, though it is really tough for them because of language barriers, access to resources and so on. And for the most part, everyone I talked to for the article, even though they didn’t usually deal with a lot of foreigners or sex crime victims (Migrant Women’s Hotline said they mostly dealt with domestic violence. KSVRC said only about 1% of the people coming to them were foreign.) all of them said they were very open to helping anyone who came to them with whatever as much as they absolutely could.

            My friends tell me the migrant women’s hotline is great for finding affordable counseling. And from my own personal experience, KSVRC is all-around one of the best resources out there. They took me step-by-step through the entire process and thoroughly explained how the police investigation would work, how to submit court statements for conviction and sentencing, what happens when the case is sent to prosecution, and even sent an advocate to court when I had to testify. And I know that Ada is working hard to get Seoul Survivor Services up to the same level and has already made some great contacts with detectives and counseling resources.

            But yes, it takes all of us working together to make a change, and people feeling safe enough to come forward with their stories and experiences. It kills me to see people publicly attacking other survivors because I know it keeps others from coming forward. And I know just how hard it is to come forward. It was mentioned in the rebuttal to this article, but there is a group starting up that is made of foreigners and Koreans to fight street and sexual harassment in Korea called Hollaback Korea. I tend to think this is a great step in the right direction.

          • Sillian

            She never said her husband ‘bailed’ on her. He was away. As for her in-laws, I can imagine the awkwardness. They probably don’t even know what to say and how to act around her about it. Worse with the language barrier.

          • terriblemovie

            Heres what she said(found on her post history)

            >>Actually rape and sexual assault and harrassment are very common in Korea and a lot goes un reported because of the stigma against the victim. After the rape my korean family wouldn’t even look at me or talk to me. They wanted to pretend it didn’t happen, I had brought shame. I had literally zero support in Korea. After the rape no one talked to me or looked at me or told me it’d be ok or offer any comfort. My husband failed to be there for me too. So I took myself and child back to the usa alone.

            She left him and went back to the US because he did provide support. In other words, they both technically “abandoned” each other.

            Of course the entire rape this is a hoax so its meaningless. The way I see it, she had a falling out with her family in law and this is her way to get back at them. By throwing all Korean males under the bus.

          • Sillian

            I think I read her husband went to Australia for work a while ago. About her in-laws, they probably acted like that not because they thought she brought ‘shame’. Older Koreans (and even many young Koreans) generally find it very ‘awkward’ to talk about any sex-related things between family members. They probably thought just not bringing it up at all would be better. The language barrier between her and her in-laws doesn’t help either. She was very unlucky and her experience is not typical but there is no reason to think it is something impossible.

          • Uhf

            No I mean think about it EVERYONE abandoned her? And there is a difference between sex and rape. I find it hard to believe her Korean family abandoned her they would be embarrassed maybe, but they would still help her due to her being a foreigner going through something so tragic in their country caused by their people. Again her story has holes. And not to sound rude, but you don’t know what she meant. And most husbands if not all would go to wherever their wife is to support her.. if she went through something so tragic of not only being raped, but also again almost raped? Plus being sexually harrassed so many times? Why would he still stay in Australia and ignoreher? And not come to support her?

          • Sillian

            Even if it sounds unusual, there are all kinds of people and relationships. The in-laws might have thought she would find it shameful or disgusting that not reminding her at all would be the best way. Who knows. It doesn’t seem like they can communicate very well. We cannot know every detail of her personal situation. You probably haven’t seen her before but she used to be a regular commentator here. I’m usually quick to notice deliberate trolls but I believe she’s genuine from all her comments I’ve read so far. Some people are just really unlucky for real.

          • jonnyg433

            OMG you’re so demented.

            You have absolutely no fucking idea what happened to her. You’re a clownhat with a chip on his shoulder trying to defend Korean men, who are FAMOUS for mistreating women ALL THE TIME. As one older Korean man told me once, “you must beat a woman every three days, whether she needs it or not.” Right

            And finally, You have absolutely NO FUCKING HEART.

            But PLEEASE Keep posting — you’re doing more damage to the reputation of Korean men right on this post than anyone could ever do in a hundred years……

            LIKE — where the fuck are the sensible koreans at a time like this?!?! I know you’re out there. Why are you silent when a piece of shit like this runs his mouth, and says he represents you????

            If this were some redneck white American saying shit like this about a girl, I’d be all over that shit-kicker……….

            I just don’t get it.

        • mary

          Did you report this to the police? Which police district did you report this to? One of my Korean friend’s husband’s cousin is a high ranking police official who can review any information about any case, and he maybe able to help you. What happened? Did you get a medical checkup after the rape? Medical checkups are crucial if and when the perp tries to deny anything. Why are you back in the USA, when you should be in Korea, talking to the police and waiting out the case in the court?

    • SuvinderR

      I hope you and your albino ilk all go back to Europe.

      • I hope you and your prokaryotic brain go back to the Big Bang.

    • jem

      Your avatar picture never fails to amuse me. It looks like your picking your nose or something.

    • Claude

      Jesus Christ, I’m sorry to hear what has happened to you. I’m a guy and I was there in the early 90’s for a year and in hindsight I wished it was just a stop-over. Interesting place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there. It was like a nation stuck in the early or mid 20th century where men are men and woman are scared. As a foreigner the racism was thick and the men frankly- rude. I have tales to tell but pale in comparison to yours so I won’t dare.

      Recently I’ve reading about the progress it’s been making economically and socially and I start to believe them after all – it’s been 20 years.. but when I talk to someone just returning it sounds like the same shit-hole it was when I was there.

      Best of luck

      • fg197548

        I’d gladly smash your face in and cut it to shreds.

      • Claude

        @kate

        I should say that my post was for Kate not guest. Again, sorry to hear what happened to you.

    • Sillian

      If I remember correctly, wasn’t it your second term in Korea? What changed from your first term if you don’t mind sharing your personal experience? I’m shocked to know you went through all those in the past year.

      • mary

        If I remember correctly she claims she was also raped and groped and harassed in her first term as well. She must be the most unluckiest person ever.

    • Uhf

      Your story sounds like bullshit touching you or groping..maybe I’ve dealt with that from some of the men, but everything else you claimed no? Most women including I if dealt with all those of those things(which are a lot) would be too shaken up to even get on the internet. And no you are not pretty you look like a transvestite that escaped during the middle of operation. Get over yourself.

      • …coming from someone who looks like this:

        • Uhf

          You yourself should be using that picture yourself. I do give you props for showing that… your face.

        • Uhf

          I don’t have a picture… what is your point? You would have to be stupid to think that EVERYONE who shows their picture is good looking and everyone who doesn’t is ugly… come on bro.. do better.

        • Germandude

          And that’s probably one of the prettier pictures of him/her…

      • mr.wiener

        You beggar belief…
        Just outright nasty, and for no good reason.

    • Uhf

      And for you to actually joke around with rape and sexual assault is fucked up… like seriously. I can’t believe people are buying this girl’s bullshit. I mean think about it guys all of THAT happened in 12 months really? Not just that, but how can someone who’s supposedly gone through all of that(especially rape) be able to get on the internet? Women who are raped let me tell you they close themselves off from the world for years. Also she says she is pretty and a pervert magnet? Like seriously. I cannot believe people fell for this bitch’s lies.

      • Yaminah Jamison

        Regardless of validity, let’s not generalize how all raped women/people are. That’s truly disgusting to say “oh you weren’t raped becauae you’re not acting like the aftermath stereotype!” Both my aunts and mom were raped… my mom for years since she was young but didn’t/couldn’t shut herself off from the world. Even after her first husband abused and raped her, my mom had a job to go to and a kid to raise, and sneaking off to school. All three dealt with it differently and because they are all vastly different people, aren’t going about as said stereotype. Not all go through the “I’m now hopeless and don’t know what to do anymore” mentality. Some still have responsibilities to deal with. Though sadly it does affect their mentality further down the road.

        • Uhf

          No it’s not disgusting. People all of the time troll on the internet… people lie about being other ethnicities, they steal photos, people do a lot of disgusting things on the internet. People used to say all the time(it was a trend) Bro, I fucked your mother and people would always say… my mother died. But I do respect you for not being rude and disagreeing with me respectfully unlike that bastard Matt.. he’s funny though getting all riled up.

        • Uhf

          I do agree everyone deals with things differently(especially mothers). But that girl just seems like she’s lying.. I don’t know what it is. Again thank you for disagreeing with respectfully. I truly respect that.

      • And for you to actually play “detective” on someone’s rape and sexual assault is fucked up… like seriously.

        P.S: I don’t know how long you’ve been here, “Uhf”, but Kate has been on this site for well over a year––practically since its inception. She’s legit and has credibility––you don’t.

        • Uhf

          Whether that is fucked up is AN OPINION. Me saying that joking/lying about rape being fucked up is a fact. So.. because she’s been commenting here for over a year she’s legit and has credibility? That really doesn’t make any sense you don’t know HOW she is off of the internet. And people lie/troll all the time you would have to be stupid to not think so. People lie about who they are on the internet for years. A lot of people get on the internet to pretend to be people other than themselves and/or they love to troll.

          • No, calling bullshit on someone’s rape is fucked up. You clearly are not a regular here, and for all I know you could have just stumbled upon this website today, but many people here, including dk2020, linette lee, mr.wiener, and myself have been reading Kate’s comments here long enough to know that she’s not just some random Internet troll. We’ve seen pictures of her baby, FFS.

            Is there some degree of possibility that her entire online persona for over the past year has all been part of some cleverly orchestrated elaborate hoax? Perhaps. But the risks of telling an alleged rape victim that she’s just bluffing far exceed any benefits to be gained from you playing Sherlock Holmes. Yasminah Jamison (another regular here, FYI) was right to say that your remarks are truly disgusting.

          • Uhf

            Again that is an opinion. God you are an idiot. Where is your proof she is telling the truth? I’m not even going to bother reading the rest of your bullshit. People lie all the time on the internet again you would have to be an idiot not to believe people lie on the internet about serious things. And again why are you so sure she is not lying? Since you want to defend her so badly. Give me proof Matt, where you there? Tell me.

          • “Where is your proof she is telling the truth?”

            Where is your proof that she is not?

            The fact that people lie on the Internet is not proof that every statement on the Internet is a lie.

            Seriously, you’re obtuse as f**k. You talk too much. Shut up.

          • Uhf

            I asked you first don’t do that immature shit of turning the question around. But where is your proof she is not one of those people that lie? You must know her personally right? Her story is full of holes whether you can see it or not. And you need to stop getting into someone else’s argument. You act as if Kate is your child. She’s a grown woman. Stop interfering into someone else’s argument. It is NOT YOUR ARGUMENT. Get out of it. As a matter of fact I’m done with you keep talking to yourself I am trying to talk to Kate(though she changed her name… wonder why?) NOT YOU. You are irrelevant in this discussion. All of us doubting her are not talking to you so stop butting in into arguments that are not yours.

          • How the hell can you prove someone was raped? Are you retarded? (No need to answer.)

          • Uhf

            Haha you are an idiot. I am seriously done talking to you. It’s called police reports or documents which she is suppose to have a copy of or be able to get a copy of… come on logic, bro. Done speaking with you I feel like my IQ decreases as I read anything you type.

          • Kiwi

            Please make a youtube video on this

          • jonnyg433

            Uhf — OMG you’re such a completely demented clownhat, LOL. Keep the comedy coming.

      • Germandude

        You are a fucking retard. There are many cases in which victims of rape or other tragedies are assuming they are strong enough to forget and build a shield around them which makes them appear as “having gotten over it”. Many of those victims suffer consequences in theyr psychology or personalities long after such an incident.

        Some people on these boards are so fucking simple-minded and dumb, it would actually be laughable that these are existing. Unfortunately, this is not a case to joke about you simpleton.

    • terriblemovie

      Kate, I have reasons to seriously doubt your story. You had a child with an abusive Korean man who ran out on you. Then your Korean family shunned you because you were raped(what kind of family does this?). Then you were groped several times by multiple strangers. Constantly stalked by sex hungry maniacs. You had to run for you life. Strangers would come up to you from nowhere and ask for sex. Men were taking pictures of you all the time without your permission. Some guy took photos of you while you were sleeping in a subway. You were violently and sexually harassed repeatedly. You endured two rapes. One unsuccessful, the other successful which lead to a police conviction.

      ALL OF THIS HAPPENED IN THE SPAN OF 12 MONTHS while you were a courageous young mother caring for her defenseless infant. Hollywood baby.

      And after that YOU POST ON THIS SITE WITH YOUR FIRST NAME AND YOUR REAL PICTURE WHILE SMILING. You don’t sound particularly traumatized. On the contrary, you sound like someone who wants attention. Reading your post history, you don’t sound even the tiniest bit like someone who endured tragedy. In fact 6 days ago, you were fawning over some muscular university students on chinasmack.

      Chinasmack: Dorm Room Muscle Men, Military Training & More
      Kate “2nd pic down, guy in the center = hottie :-)”

      Your post history during the past couple of months doesn’t suggest or mention any violent sex crimes or tragedy. Please tell me your real full name and the city/district your rape happened in.

      • mary

        If a foreigner woman gets raped in Korea, it would surely be on the news. The last news of foreigner getting raped was about a 19 year old Korean male raping a foreigner white girl in her 20’s at a night club. He was arrested by the police. I wonder if that rape victim was Kate. But to get raped twice, then get attempted raped several times in the last couple of years, does seem like very high odds to me. But who knows, it could just be that she’s highly unlucky.

        • terriblemovie

          All of that happened in 12 months. Not over several years.

      • “Its rather sad and pathetic that you believe everything is a conspiracy. Grow up.”––terriblemovie, 2 months ago

        • terriblemovie

          I called her out on her far fetched story. The numerous times she was harassed within 12 months is ridiculous. Something out of a novel.

          It should be rather easy for her to prove that what she was raped in Korea. A westerner being raped in Korea is a very big deal because its rare. How rare? If i’m not mistaken, its only happened twice within the last year.

          It happened to an American woman on Dec 29, 2012. However, she was raped by a Nigerian man rather than Korean.

          The other incident occurred on May 9, 2013. However, it happened to a Canadian woman.

          Kate claims to be American. So which is it? She claims that she reported it to the police and that the trial is commencing. Why can’t I find any information about it? It should be plastered all over the news.

          • bigmamat

            Well I think you look there is evidence of a groping problem on the subway. So much so that at one point there was a proposal to create women only subway cars.

        • Uhf

          You talk too much, shut up. No one is even talking to you this is directed at kate. Get out of this. Kate is a grown woman she can defend herself(against nothing) if she needs to.

          • jonnyg433

            You’re so angry, creepy, and demented.

          • It affects all of us because it people are silence this way when they try to come forward, it shames rape and sexual violence survivors into silence. It makes a less safe environment for all of us if people are unable to report crimes.

      • terriblemovie

        According to a report done by The European Institute for Crime Prevention and Control(affiliated with the UN)-

        South Korea had the 2nd lowest rapes per capita measured amongst 30 countries. South Africa had the highest.

        First world countries with far higher rape rates include: Australia, Canada, Sweden, New Zealand, Belgium, Ireland, England, Norway, Iceland, France, Israel and the United States of America.

        I’m sorry Kate but your 12 month span harassment story is way too far fetched. Their are thousands of young Caucasian women working in Korea who have lived here for years and never once endured a grope. Your story about being constantly harassed/followed/stalked 24/7 is preposterous. A white woman in South Korea isn’t an uncommon sight.

        Please state your real name and the city/district you were raped and on what date. Lets see if what you say is real.

        • bigmamat

          Well according to the non Korean women who write about their experiences in Korea on the net they may not get groped but they do get asked a lot if they are Russian prostitutes.

        • Stevie B

          I wonder in how many of those countries a rape can magically be transformed into a simple misunderstanding through the generous application of ‘blood money’?

          Also, please spend the next ten minutes or so carefully imagining what it would be like if YOU were raped, and how keen you would be to summon the law in the pain, trauma and shame of the aftermath. I mean it – I want you to start with a scenario (a drunken night out with work colleagues, perhaps, or an overnight stay in a quiet jimjillbang), and let it play out through the friendly first approach, to your discomfort at the creeping coercion, to your fending off several strikes before finally being overpowered and succumbing. Maybe you’d go limp at this point, just to let him finish and minimize the pain. After he finally climbs off you, perhaps he’d pretend that you’re best friends and it was all just a bit of a joke. Q. In this imaginary scenario, after he has left you alone, how keen are you going to be to explain what just happened several times over to a group of incredulous police men?

          Then, once you’ve done all that, fuck off back to Korean Sentry.

      • Kate

        Read my second post.

        My husband never ran out on me and I never said he did. My korean family qasnt aupportive.

        The rapist hasn’t been convicted, the case is suspended till I go back to Korea.

        And I’ll tell you my full name but not on this board, give me an email.

      • Uhf

        Exactly. These people are idiots to believe her. I don’t advocate rape and sexual harassment so for her to lie.. is really sad. People are going to keep arguing with you so don’t give them what they want.. I know I’m not anymore. Also why would a supposed rape victim claim they are a pervert magnet as if to be funny? Plus I can’t get over her mentioning her weight, height, being pretty as if to say that was the reason why she was supposedly raped(who says shit like that?) and sexually harassed by sooo many korean men.

        • jonnyg433

          Hey clownhat: KOREAN MEN ARE FAMOUS FOR BEING ABSOLUTE SHIT-HEADS TO WOMEN.

          They are also famous in SE Asia, where they go to buy child prostitutes.(don’t believe me? just google it) Generally, SE Asian people *HATE* Koreans because–as your creepy posts highlight — you never want to accept when you are idiots.

          • dk2020

            Uh, thanks for speaking for all SE Asians against Korean men but I have plenty of barkada and Viet homies that will tell you different. People need to quit being so fucken retarded and racist and quit generalizing. Blame the individuals instead of the whole race. Me personally, I don’t know how to be responsible for anybody else and what they do, only for myself. That collective blame shame mentality is very Asian/Korean and its a bunch of horseshit..

          • bigmamat

            Perhaps you should begin to take responsibility. That is the only way for perceptions to change. If your neighbor is beating his wife. Call the police. If you see some perv on the subway patting fannies, get on the smart phone and call security. If your drinking buddies start talking shit call them out on it. And by all means feel free to continue to treat the women in your own life with respect. That’s the only way to change things. Don’t turn a blind eye to it.

          • dk2020

            EZer said than done .. I have before with mixed results, its not all that simple, some people are so self destructive they need that drama in their life, and can’t play hero all the time. I can honestly say I’ve never stumbled on a rape or pervs before.. domestic violence with family and friends I’ll get involved but with strangers that’s none of my bizz.. Trust me my drinking buddies dont go around bragging about beating up on women .. who does that?

            I’m saying I don’t take responsibility for Korean men that commit those rapes or whatever crimes just because of my ethnicity and you shouldn’t stereotype..

      • The idea that a rape survivor is “supposed to” never smile, or “supposed to” act a certain way or “sound traumatized” in a way that you expect is really wrong. I think it would be beneficial to your understanding of sexual violence to have a more detailed chat about the issue. I am available if you want to talk about sexual violence and learn how not to add shame and stigma when you talk about rape survivors.

    • Kate

      Ok so apparently my post has gotten a lot of attention and people saying I’m lieing and people wanting more details.
      1) I saod I spent a TOTAL of 12 months in Korea. All of what happened to me didn’t happen in a span of 12 months. I was in Korea from June 2011 to March 2012 then went back March 2013 and came back after the rape which in August 2013.

      2) I lived in Yeoungdeungpo area.

      3) As far as some people saying I’m not “acting” traumatized , well all I can say is no one on this board lives with me or knows my feelings or knows all the details or what I’ve been thru. Only close friends and family know everything and I’m not going to spill that all on here

      4) The police have done an excellent job in my case. Yes the night I had it happen I went straight to the police station and hospital and had everything done. Yes they have cctv and physical evidence and right now the case is suspended becaise I out of countey. When I go back it goes to court.

      5) Why didn’t I stay in Korea? Because my korean family wasn’t supportive and there is also the language barrier. It was a horrible time and I needed to be with my family.

      6) So my post seems to have made some people angry. Look alll I can say is its your choice to believe me or not. I know I’m not lieing but its your own choice wherher you think so or not. There is absolutely nothing I can post to “prove” what I said.

      Anyway, ill answer questions but I’m not reaponding to commentatos call just ng me names or writing me angry messages.

      • Kate

        Also Brett helped me out a lot after the rape.

      • terriblemovie

        Lets use some police data and logic to refute Kates story-

        Fact 1: Kate claims that she was in Korea from March 2013-August 2013.

        Fact 2: Kate is a teacher.

        Fact 3: Kate is a 26 year old American who lived in Yeoungdeungpo.

        Fact 4: Kate claims she reported the rape to the police and that the rapist is being sentenced.

        Fact 5: Western teachers being raped in Korea is very very rare. So rare in fact that such incidents make national news.

        Fact 6: Only ONE instance of a western teacher being raped occurred during March 2013-August 2013. It happened to a CANADIAN woman who wasn’t 26 years old in Banpo-dong.

        Story = busted

        • Please state your real name and the city/district you became a complete jackass and on what date.

          • terriblemovie

            Oh god you are such an idiot.

            I provided irrefutable proof that shes a liar and you still defend her. Only one rape of a western teacher by a Korean occurred during the time she claims she was raped(odd that she doesn’t provide an exact date).

            It happened to a Canadian teacher in Banpo-Dong. Kate is a 26 year old American in Yeoungdeungpo.

            I bet if Kate tells you the earth is flat, you in your beta-male eagerness would defend her.

          • You provided irrefutable proof that Kate’s case hasn’t been reported in the national media.

            Yesterday I had a turkey sandwich––but it wasn’t reported on CNN, so maybe it didn’t actually happen.

          • terriblemovie

            Matt

            Funny you just accused me of conspiracy theories earlier. Now you’re claiming that Kates story is for whatever reason not being reported by the media. LOL.

            Sorry but its the POLICE that reports to the entire country whenever a person is raped. When that person is a western woman, it makes headlines.

            Kates story does not exist. Its entirely fictitious.

          • In a country of 50 million people, every single incident of rape is reported in the national media? Wow, why not make a reality TV show out of it. And to think, we’re stuck watching Chris Matthews and Bill O’Reilly.

          • terriblemovie

            Ughh you are such a blithering idiot, its not even funny. The police record all rapes, the media picks up and reports the stories that are notable(celebrity rape, child gang rape, western teacher being raped). No shit all rapes arn’t covered by the media. An American teacher getting raped however is reported because its a rare occurrence and international.

          • You said the police reports to the entire country whenever a person is raped. So where are those reports? I’m still waiting for your evidence.

            Moreover, can you even *prove* that 100% of rapes of Westerners are reported in the media? I’d like to see how proving such a thing would even be possible. How can you “prove” that a non-reported rape didn’t exist?

          • terriblemovie
          • Sorry, but the day I do all that just to find out if a rape victim was bluffing is the day I no longer deserve to call myself a human being.

            I frankly can’t imagine a more disgusting use of my time––short of raping somebody.

            I think this discussion has gone on long enough. I pity any poor woman who crosses your path. Khodahafez.

          • terriblemovie

            Lol, you can’t even send a tiny little e-mail to confirm the number of rapes? You must be one very sensitive beta male. Heres the e-mails to the US embassy-

            [email protected]
            [email protected]
            [email protected]

            All you have to do is request the number of Americans who were raped in 2013. Thats it. Is that too much for you princess?

          • terriblemovie

            Fine, don’t send an e-mail. I’ll post the reply as soon as they send it. I’m going to laugh and call you out for being the gullible idiot you are when they finally reply back.

          • chucky3176

            Never mind with emails. What do you have right now in your possession that made you claim she was making a hoax. You said you had indisputable evidence. Now quit beating around the bush and tell us what this is. The burden of proof is on the person who is making accusations. It’s not up to anyone else to go find this indisputable evidence.

          • Uhf

            His/her comment is for Kate. I don’t why you guys are butting in me and him/her are arguing towards Kate. He does not have to show you guys ANYTHING. As a matter of fact why don’t you guys show proof she is not lying since YOU people are getting riled up over this person you know Kate personally. Since you know her personally you guys should be able to confirm whether or not she is lying, right?

          • bumfromkorea

            I’m sorry. You two nimrods are telling a fucking rape victim to prove that she was raped with evidences from a public source, and you think others are butting into you two?

            since YOU people are getting riled up over this person you know Kate personally.

            This is the kind of argument that only sociopaths make, and frankly, the evidence presented here in the public so far is a lot stronger than you two’s “logic”.

          • Regarding “butting in” this attempt at silencing and rape survivor shaming affects ALL of us because if sexual violence survivors are silenced this way when they try to come forward, it shames rape and sexual violence survivors into not reporting or not sharing their stories. It makes a less safe environment for all of us if people are unable to report crimes and when we cannot build safe spaces for discussion.

          • bigmamat

            Well in my experience the internet is not really as safe space for discussion. But it’s still a GOOD place for discussion because 30 years ago we didn’t have it at all. My thought is that even a bad discussion is better than no communication at all.

          • I don’t know, I don’t like a discussion THIS bad, where a survivor is being harassed and called a liar, so I am always going to call BS on that kind of behavior and say it is out of bounds. Or maybe I shouldn’t call it a discussion. Someone referred to terriblemovie and Uhf as holding a “trial by internet” and this does come off as an interrogation.

          • bumfromkorea

            I’m sorry, but I typically find it appropriate for someone who’s calling a rape victim a liar to come up with the empirical evidence. You’re accusing her of being a liar – therefore, the burden of proof is entirely on you.

            You clearly have the email address and a suitable internet connection – it’s your responsibility, now that you have made this accusation. Prove it, or quit badgering someone over something that is clearly traumatic.

          • Emma

            Didn’t really want to get into this, but, I did a story on sexual assault against foreigners in Korea a few months ago, unless something has changed since I worked on my story:

            A.) The KNPA does not distinguish the nationality of victims in its data. I found this out when I had an intern (who was Korean and spoke in Korean) call and request data specifically on foreign victims. We were told by the police that they do not track this in their sex crimes data, however, they could give me data on crimes committed by foreigners which falls under a department that deals specifically with foreigner crime.

            B.) The U.S. Embassy only tracks crimes that are reported to them by the victims. I know this through my own experience of being attacked in my home by my neighbor (who was Korean) in January 2013 when I contacted them in regards to my case. They were great and did everything they were legally able to do to help.

            C.) Not all cases are covered by the media. Yes, the police send press releases in regards to crimes, but only a few are reported. My case was only covered by media because the offender ran out of my house without his pants. And even then, it was only picked up after the police put out a press release that they had arrested him a month after the attack. I have friends, foreign and Korean, who were raped or assaulted, went to the police had the offenders arrested and prosecuted, but there was never any report in the media.

            Now, if things have changed since March/April 2013, then great. But from what I know, it’s impossible to tell how many foreign victims of sexual assault there are by looking at data on the KNPA website in English or Korean or by calling and requesting the data from them or the U.S Embassy. The Korea Sexual Violence Relief Center and Gender Ministry says the report rate in Korea is roughly 10 percent, meaning it’s impossible to know the full number of victims, foreign or Korean. Therefore, I think the argument that she is lying because you can’t find it in the news or on the KNPA website is absolutely ridiculous. Linking my article for reference.

            http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130423001036

            And trying to silence victims? Shame on you. Nothing will change if everyone tells us to just shut up.

          • Agree so much! Thanks for spelling out the arguments~

          • Kiwi

            Wow over an online comment

            you are definitely not a Korean nationalist looney toon

          • Claude

            For what I understand sexual assault is more common than is reported in Korea. Much like America in the mid 20th century, many rapes in Korea aren’t reported to the police so the family’s aren’t embarrassed. The fear if being disowned by the family is strong because maybe somehow the tables will be turned; “she was asking for it by dressing seductively.” and other antiquated excuses for sexual assault. The Stigma sexual assault is still persistent in the west so a patriarchal society like Korea, I can’t even imagine.

          • dk2020

            you’re wrong about america also .. I dunno, I’m a guy so I’ve never had to worry about being raped nor have I known any rapists or condone it .. but keep on pushing that fear that SK is so much worse than the states or anywhere else for that matter .. its not ..

          • I think Claude’s point was not that sexual violence is more frequent in Korea, but that it is under-reported. Sexual violence is under-reported in many countries.

          • anon325

            yes, its underreported everywhere hence this is not an issue solely reserved for Korea. hence everyone should handle their own crap first and foremost and not point fingers.

          • anon325

            you should research into American military raping their own female soldiers every minute. I mean if 1 out of 3 women in the U.S.military is raped by their own fellow soldier, imagine how many are REALLY raped and unreported? POINT IS Rape culture exists everywhere and U.S. or anyone is not one to criticize other countries. Everyone needs to wipe their own asses and check their own heads first. I mean, 1 in 3? that’s probably more like 2 out of 3 women, and when they try to report it they get hassled, bullied back at the barracks so they don’t tell. it’s pretty bad in the U.S. I mean, look at the porn industry, yikes!

          • bumfromkorea

            An American teacher getting raped however is reported because its a rare occurrence and international.

            Empirically false. Not all crimes where a non-Korean is the victim get reported (in fact, the impression I get is that a lot of those gets media blackout) including rape, assault, and even murder. When a story is sensational enough, or if it’s a slow news day, the Korean media may cover it, but your assumption that an American teacher as a rape victim gets automatic coverage in Korea is a huge unsubstantiated assumption – and a morally and logically indefensible one if that’s the proof you’re going to use to disprove a rape victim’s claim.

          • bigmamat

            I think you are probably right about the “blackout” on crimes against non Koreans. Korea has been trying to attract tourists. One of it’s talking points for making tourists feel safe is it’s relatively low crime rate. It wouldn’t surprise me if crimes against non Koreans went under reported. I think it’s also pretty standard for crimes committed by non Koreans to sometimes get a lot of media play. Certainly when an American service member does something bad it’s fair game since the U.S. presence there is often a hot button issue. I think even ESL teachers and their presence in the country has created news.

          • holdingrabbits

            Actually, crimes against foreigners are often downplayed while crimes by foreigners are blown out of proportion.

          • dk2020

            that’s what happens when you’re marginalized.. plz let me know where foreigners have equal rights as citizens ..

          • holdingrabbits

            I would never expect us to, but that’s okay. I don’t need to have equal rights as Koreans. I don’t want to give what is expected of Korean men, in terms of hours worked a week, expected income, expected lifestyle choices, etc. So I’m cool with it. Like I’ve said before, I just want to go my own way.

          • That’s good mang, your life is what you make it.. life is too short to be stressed out.. peace comes from within with contentment which leads to happiness, no matter where you’re at, even though living in Korea is a hellhole.. lols.

          • Sillian

            I can’t think of any reason why she would lie. Prove first that there was only one rape case that happened to a western teacher in Seoul or nationally during that period. How do you even know that?

          • terriblemovie

            Because its the only one recorded within police database during that time frame that involves an Western English teacher being raped by a Korean man.

          • Sillian

            What police database? How do you access it?

          • terriblemovie

            The KNPA(Korean national police agency), you can find their contact info on their website.

            Ask them if an American Teacher was raped between March 2013-August 2013.

            Kates story is a hoax. The only American teacher that was raped in Korea during that time frame was by a Nigerian.

          • What’s the URL link to their so-called “database”?

            I don’t see it here:

            http://www.police.go.kr/eng/main/contents.do?menuNo=500026

            …or here:

            http://www.police.go.kr/eng/main/contents.do?menuNo=500082

            Please enlighten us, sensei!

          • chucky3176

            I think you need to do a better job proving that her story is a hoax. Give us the link, or an email letter from the KNPA, or the description how you tapped the database. Simply saying, “go ask the KNPA” isn’t good enough. So how did you get hold of this information and how are you so sure it’s a hoax? Simply dismissing possible rape on the account of a haunch is not good enough, and it makes you look like a jerk.

          • terriblemovie

            I just sent an email to the US embassy. The site says it should take 2 days for a reply.

            If you can’t wait that long then why don’t you call them?

          • chucky3176

            Huh? The question was, how did you find out this was just a hoax. You have already given us a final conclusion, and you said you already had indisputable evidence. All I ask is that you reveal what this is. But you say I have to wait 2 days for the answer. So in other words, you have no conclusive evidence that this was a hoax. So then you should not have said this was a hoax and claim you had indisputable evidence. You should not claim something when it’s not true.

          • elizabeth

            To be fair, you should demand the same from those who claim that it’s real.

          • Sillian

            And you haven’t contacted them. Talk about ‘proof’ only when you already have it.

          • Uhf

            People lie all of the time about horrible things. Why should he/she prove something to you guys? Kate should be proving first… since she is not lying. Why not just shut us up by providing proof since she has a camera(she took a picture) why not take a photo of your proof and post it?

          • When did she say she took a picture?

            Are you referring to this?:

            “I had men take my picture without asking (once I woke up on the subway to find a man taking my picture)”

            I suggest you forget about playing Sherlock Holmes and just focus on learning English for now. And take a few classes in not-being-a-terrible-human-being. Demanding that rape victims prove they were raped? Holy sh*t.

          • jonnyg433

            What a creepy disgusting Korean male idiot you are.
            MY GOD. Just wow…

            so is that what you do for a living – try to rip apart rape-victims and make them feel even more shame?

            Congratulations.
            You’re completely demented.

          • haohao

            I don’t see anything wrong with what he said. All you can say is call him mean?

          • Uhf

            He’s not the one who claimed to be raped or have a crime being committed against him.. you idiot. Stop butting into an argument that has nothing to do with you. You are an annoying prick. With you defending her lies this much I assume you know her personally… right?

          • linette lee

            Uhf and terriblemovie, why do you two feel you need to prove she is lying? There are two possibilities.
            1)she lied and so she did. No one got hurt. Not you, not Kate, nobody. So why are you two so angry when no one was hurt.
            2)It happened. And you two are here attacking her. Attacking a rape victim who is already suffering physically and mentally. You two cause further damage to her.
            So why do you feel the need to do this?

          • Uhf

            Again I’m tired of people butting in. Lying about rape and sexual harassment is VERY SERIOUS. And it is very hurtful towards rape victims. Lying about serious matters is very hurtful to not only rape victims, but non rape victims.

            You have no proof she was raped. She still hasn’t provided documents or a copy of her police report how hard is it to get one, take a picture, and upload it here? It’s just like taking a personal photo. When she does show proof with a report or document I will shut up and apologize to her. Also you don’t know her at all… so your comment about her being a rape victim is invalid. I also find it weird how she decides to post as a guest (not allowing others to see her comments) when that one guy called her out about her past comments. Something to hide huh, Kate? I too saw her comments and she was arguing with many people also calling someone ugly as well.

            Anyway, I will not be speaking with anyone, but Kate. You people can keep speaking to yourselves all you like.

          • linette lee

            I am not saying it is true or a lie. I am just saying if it is indeed a lie she is just playing on the internet trolling in this site. No ONE IS HURT over this. But if she is telling the truth and you are attacking her calling her trolling you are damaging her. She doesn’t need to be further more damage and hurt. You understand??? Now you go over to the corner and think about it.

          • mr.wiener

            Oh, you are tired of people butting in….on an internet page….You would like to have the rape victim all to yourself to call a liar…..
            What is the weather like on your planet?

          • hala

            You are tired of people butting in???? Who are you? Some pleb gyopo who is angry that this woman has said she was sexually assaulted. And now no one else but you and terriblehuman can “butt in” and lead the investigation as to what really happened. Don’t you see the irony with what you are saying and the subject of the original article? It’s mind blowing.

          • jonnyg433

            OH oh oh oh….”Uhf” is tired of “people butting in” to his/her shit-hat demented argument that says “there is no proof” and that the rape is a hoax. LOL!! As if no one else has the right to call out these demented Koreans who only care about making themselves look good.

            AGAIN: Korean women are raped CONSTANTLY.
            creepy korean men stalk foreign women CONSTANTLY
            I was in the subway recently, and some creepy Korean college guy kept staring at my bulgarian friend. I asked her about it and she said, “I’m used to it.”

            UGH… we see this, and then why is it so hard to believe Korea has such a horrible ranking in this survey?

            BUT please, please continue to post demented stuff like this. Your posts and your creepy tirade against this girl with terrible movie prove to so many that Koreans are deeply demented in some really creepy ways….

            So…. I look forward to your next creepy post.
            kkkkkkkk

          • Sillian

            You sound ‘demented’, too.

            If you want to talk about the ranking, read the article. Not just the title. It has nothing to do with guys staring at ‘exotic’ women in the subway. And women are raped ‘constantly’ anywhere, even wherever you come from.

          • jonnyg433

            I read the article dumbass. And I would call any color of man demented if they were determined to accuse the victim of a sex crime of being a liar. If you don’t like it, I really don’t give a sh**.

            And it DOES happen a lot in Korea. Again, as I said in a comment above, not all Korean dudes are like this. That’s the disclaimer.

            But damn, when they ARE like this, it’s bad. And this has everything to do with Korean guys objectifying and exotifying the exotic blond-haired, blue-eyed beauties. I know, because I’ve dated them, and they complain all the Fu**ing time. It gets absolutely creepy. These guys FOLLOW YOU HOME for God’s sake…

            But I just love how you just blow it off as if it is nothing. Fkin hilarious… Now THAT is creepy…..

            Anyway if you have a problem with what Im sayin, then put on a blond wig and get some blue contacts and just count to ten before some creepy Korean guy is staring you down like a piece of meat. It’s happened right before My eyes for gods sake

          • Sillian

            You connected some observations of yours to the ranking and I said the ranking doesn’t measure anything like that. You went on rambling. Drink some cold water and calm down.

          • dk2020

            dudes really need to stfu on what its like being a woman ..

          • jonnyg433

            dude seriously? In order to have compassion on this chick, I am trying to act like I know what like to be a woman? fked up right there…

          • bumfromkorea

            Korean women are raped CONSTANTLY.
            creepy korean men stalk foreign women CONSTANTLY I was in the subway recently, and some creepy Korean college guy kept
            staring at my bulgarian friend. I asked her about it and she said, “I’m
            used to it.”

            I’m having trouble figuring out which is more repulsive – badgering a rape victim with a clearly retarded logic, or using the rape victim’s story as an opportunity to be a racist scum. It’s difficult, like trying to determine whether Hitler or Stalin was more evil.

          • jonnyg433

            BumfromKorea –
            OK–You’re right. And I have to apologize here… I crossed the line yesterday on that comment, and let my emotions do too much of the talking….and It’s definitely not all Korean men. I know lots of Korean guys who hate that shit as much as me… Again – apologies.

          • aight

            Well it’s not really true that her lying would hurt nobody. It really
            makes Korea look bad, so people reading this might be influenced in
            their thinking. IF she lied, it’s pretty much slander.
            If she didn’t lie, I still don’t see the point of her writing it on the internet just like this. It would’ve sufficed for her to say that she has had very negative experiences in korea for her to contribute to this topic. If she’s going to post something like this on a forum like this, she should expect that there will be people not believing her story.

          • mr.wiener

            I’m just wondering why your first reflex is to disbelieve?

          • chibal128

            Korean are like that. They will always refute acknowledging any shortcomings.
            We all know that Koreans are total jerks when it comes to women. I’m not even surprised that some of these jerks go even as far as blindly refuting that a woman was raped by their countrymen.
            You guys need a reality check.

          • 707

            I would like to look at the statistics where a person is is alleged raped, attempted rape, sexually assaulted in a space of 12 months in korea by strangers.I assume the chances of this happening are rare. i concur with aight why post an alleged serious crime on the internet, it mkaes no sense and the perp could walk free because of this.

            Chibal128 your claims that koreans are total jerks with women is truly laughable.I could say the same thing about waegukin 외국인 as well.

          • bigmamat

            I don’t know why you were downvoted for this. I’ve never been to Korea but I see expat blogs and a lot of them are nothing more than bash S.Korea sites. I’m not really sure why most of those assholes just don’t go home. Korea also has about 40 thousand American troops stationed there with a large contingency right in the middle of Seoul. Anytime you get that many 20 something guys together there might be a few problems. Americans don’t like to admit that their young military “heros” might not actually be behaving like gentlemen when they are stationed in another country. But all you have to do to understand the problems with having large numbers of testosterone pumped young men living near by is live near a major military base in the U.S.

          • bumfromkorea

            And this is the kind of racist shit that gets thrown around as a reaction to two morons who are Koreans.Two, and that’s enough for people like chibal128 to start venting their pent up frustrations that mutated into a full-on racism.

          • bigmamat

            It’s not racism as much as they are being accused of being a little overly nationalistic, which I think they admit too for the most part. Which isn’t to say that Koreans don’t deserve to be proud of themselves as a nation. They do. But Koreans and the government itself are very guarded about their image.

          • bumfromkorea

            Indeed. That still does not justify shit like:

            Korean are like that. They will always refute acknowledging any shortcomings. We all know that Koreans are total jerks when it comes to women.

            Now, I don’t know about you, but when a person says “[insert an ethnicity] are [insert a characteristic, typically negative]”, there’s a high percent chance that that person is being a racist shit. At least that’s how I understand it. How much difference is there between what chibal128 said and what racist shits in America say? : “Blacks are like that. They will always refute acknowledging any shortcomings. We all know that Blacks are total jerks when it comes to women.” Doesn’t sound so benign anymore, does it?

            Very few things disgust me more than using pseudo-feminism to justify their xenophobia.

          • bigmamat

            I see your point. I also see why a casual observer would think “Blacks are like that” especially when you talk about women since rap music is just stuffed with degrading misogynistic crap about women. That debate still goes on here in the U.S. Blacks in the U.S have been known to criticize each other for their attitudes and how it reflects on the black community at large. They also debate a lot about the use of the “N” word but there doesn’t seem to be any curbing of it’s use.

          • Kiwi

            Korea’s reputation being “hurt” by one online comment made by some no name stranger American, heavily out weights possibly attacking a rape victim…totally. Influenced in what? That a westerner +1 was raped? Trust me, I’m never going to korea as to avoid all cost of meeting terriblemovie. She has no point in writing? What point is there that people like Alexander wallance exist? What was the point of eating a tampon? What is mudkip? because it is the INTERNET say it with me, IN-TER-NET,

          • mr.wiener

            How about we give her the benefit of the doubt and say she is telling the truth?
            Which is a more terrible a psychologically scarring act [on your behalf] Saying “Liar!” to a woman on the internet who tells you she was raped [When she was] or saying “Liar” a woman who tells you she was raped if she was not?
            If she was telling the truth ,congratulations you just set her recovery back by six months …and for why? You don’t like her or you are an internet tough guy?
            If she was not telling the truth then it’s no harm no foul, but what proof do you have either way?
            If I had a 50/50 chance of hurting someone that badly I would not have said anything. Maybe you shouldn’t have either.

          • Germandude

            Also, having read many of Kate’s comments on cS and Koreabang, I personally give her the benefit of the doubt not to be a bullshitting asshat just like terriblemovie and Uhf appear to be.

            Kate might be a bit naive through posting so many of her personal info and pics on these pages, but by no-means would I expect her to make up such a story to draw attention. She is far to intelligent for that.

          • Kiwi

            pfft, terriblemovie made another account

            it’s like I’m watching jersey shore *eats popcorn*

          • Lillian

            Jackass, why do you keep posting?

      • terriblemovie

        I’m giving your comment a thumbs up Kate so that more people can see it and my refutation.

        • jonnyg433

          OMG…………

          YOU. ARE. SO.

          CREEEEEEEEEPPPPYYYYYYYYYy…….

      • Randomdude

        First off YEOUNGDEUNGPO is a fucking terrible area to be in. There’s your answer right there. That’s like saying I lived in Washington Height in NYC as an attractive white female or in Compton and am surprised that I was raped or molested.

        Yeoungdeungpo is where all the Chinese, South East Asian and sketchy people go to live and is basically the Korean Hood.

    • Germandude

      I hope your family in the US is standing strong besides you and gives you all the help and support you need.
      Also, please consider reaching a psychologist to help you with “working this out”. There is no shame in this, but chances are it helps. Do not try to pretend that you can work this out alone, but if family situation allows, get their help.
      This is only a well-meant advise. All the best to you. I am still speechless…

    • matlock

      just curious if an alleged crime has been commited and you reported it on the internet is this not forbidden in the court of law.Your defence statement may be Inadmissible in court.

    • Jesi

      Yea this survey mirrors my experiences in korea. Coming from a country that is ranked as one of the most equal in terms of gender i really noticed the inequality here. Women are expected to do everything around the house. Men here seem like children.. Many dont know how to cook or look aftertheir children. Men treat their girlfriends like property iand Iays hear domestic violence in my apartment building. It is a diresad situation. Its good that people are talking about it now so that positive change can be made.

      • bigmamat

        If Korean wants to be a “modern society” then freeing their women from 2nd class citizenship is part of the process

    • jon777

      Yup, Korean men are filth. No wonder Asian girls go for white men.

    • preciouscookie

      I can relate…I was

    • preciouscookie

      I can relate i was harassed multiple times by korean men randomly while walking back home after seeing my friends. I would have random korean men as me if I was prostitute and then ask me to take them home. I had two men almost break into my apartment (both korean men). I am a foreign teacher too. It is all too easy to try to assault a foreign woman because most of the time the police do not side with foreigners especially us “open- minded” foreign western women…

    • anon325

      thats horrible what happened to you. You seem to be non-Korean I assume? White women might be fetishized to some degree in Korea, same way Asian women are fetishized in America, this experience is common among PoC and Asian women in America.

      Its horrible wherever it is, but this is not something reserved only for Korea. if you examine U.S. military rape statistics, rape culture is rampant in America as well.

      ” I couldn’t live in a country where men were treatinf me like theirpersonal walking sex toy”
      Now you know what it’s like for Asian women in America, sucks doesn’t it? and to think they’re trying to make another showing of Miss Saigon too.

    • kyuhyun lover

      not saying what you said is wrong but saying because YOU got raped means Korea isn’t gender equal is complete bullshit. Every country has sexual assualt, I have friends who’ve had it worse in Japan because of their rape culture tbh.

    • Manderp

      I’m sorry all that happened to you. I lived in Korea for 12 months as well, and I had quite the opposite experience. My female peers and I felt INCREDIBLY safe during our time in Korea and I never feared sexual assault once, except once or twice by other foreigners. And I used to walk home alone from the PC bang to my apartment at 3 A.M. on a pretty regular basis! But I did live in Incheon, a bit outside Seoul. I loved my time in Korea and wouldn’t have traded it for anything. Koreans were always friendly, hospitable and respectful to me and my friends. At most, I received some drunken flirting, but I never met a Korean man who didn’t respect me when I told him to back off.

      Don’t mean to discredit what happened to you, I’m just offering a different experience of Korea from a foreigner perspective.
      Again, sorry your experience was so profoundly negative.

    • Nishi Hundan

      Oh, I believe her because Koreans are all a bunch of cocksucking heathens.

  • commander

    The reason women quit their jobs when they get married is that they dont have to make money working hard and currying favor with bosses at work as they can rely on husbands for a living, which explains why many women prioritize annual salary as a precondition of a potential spouse in consideration of marriage.

    Some women speak of sexual harasssment at work and the disadvantages they suffer when sexual advances are snubbed flatly.

    It is their bossess that are to blame for matter.

    Another grievience raised frequently raised by women is glass ceiling to corporate promotion for women.

    The rarity of women in executive rooms can be attributed to two factors. Female workers’ high rate of qutting jobs before marriage, and reluctance of their seniors to choose their predecessors in corporate politics.

    First, many women at firms quit working around the time of marriage with the realization that competition at work is fiercer than thought. In addition, they are often unwilling to make as stong commitment to work as their male counterparts who devote themselves fully to work without ample leisure with families.

    The high rate resignation for women can be also blamed on their financial reliance on male spouses, a dependence that would be inconceivable for men.

    The primary condition for marriage suggested, implitictly or explicitly, by women of marriageable age in a blind date is the amount of annual salary of a potential spouse.

    The heavy financial reliance caused by qutting jobs leads to lower than expected economic participation rate for South Korea.

    Second, many officer workers find woman colleagues or subordinates less reliable than men in taking the “same boat” in climbing corporate ladder because of their high dropout rate, less commitment to work, and what male workers see as the lack of understanding in organizational culture.

    Women tend to make frequent complaints about corporate life ranging from after-work gathering for dinner and drinks to their boss’s handling with work assignment and so on.

    In contrast, men whose military service taught them in endurance with their commander’s idiosyncracies that often test their patience limits see everying that is even slightest related to work as a continuance of work knowing that comments and behavior at work could be critical in promotion, which has a boss’s evaluation as a crucial element.

    In this view, corporate glass ceiling is what blissfully ignorant woman workers make of its naive perception of corporate life.

    These factors–departure from frims for marriages and insufficent loyalty to firms that leading to lower chances of promotion–contribute to what feminiat groups claim the conspicuous absense of women in executive posts despite high educational credentials women have.

    The starting point for a more gender equitable world is for women to break out of their fixed ideas and change their thought for themselves, instrad of shifting the blame for amy disadvantages they may sustain to the other sex.

  • Let’s just say this.

    Korean society is hierarchial. Men on top women on bottom. Men allowed to do whatever. This is the same bullshit that’s going up in the Taliban.

    Are Korean men no worse and perverted then the Taliban fucks? I think so. Look all those cases in Korea involving sex. Old post Korean War born mother fucking senile shitheads dirtying younger generation.

    Until we get rid of this gender/sexual segregation in Korea (there are no gay/bi Korean men only straight men ¯_(ツ)_/¯), this system is bound for ruin because when you can’t have people in society based on intrinsic value, instead only on exterior looks and conformity, it’s ultimately doomed to failure.

    It’s not far as to say Korean society is exactly why North Korea and the likes are possible. Lot of South Koreans claim but we are nothing like North Koreans. Of course not, you are all busy buying shit you don’t need, you can’t see that you are no better off. Until we end this outdated neo-Confucius mentality that places social hierarchy above individual welfare, it will never see it’s true potential.

    • dk2020

      Buhhh .. superficiality and materialism is what is eroding Korean culture .. importance of family clan above all else is what was traditional .. I don’t know about your family but mine has always been matriarchal, with strong Korean women that kept the family together ..

    • Sillian

      Now let’s not get carried away too far with meaningless hyperbolic self-depreciative rants. Just try to be sharp and accurate. That’s generally better if you want some discussion.

    • fg197548

      die of aids thanks

  • SuvinderR

    The gender gap is large because the gender roles are different. That’s like saying an apple and a banana is drastically different. Of course they are. This is the kind of useless report that focuses more on “equality” than effectiveness. If their stated goal was that that having females make as much money as males would greatly enrich the nation, that might be a perspective worth discussing. But no, this is all feelings and butthurt over “tolerance” and such irrelevant things.

    • fg197548

      yawn.

  • jonnyg433

    terrible movie: I love your name, because it’s so apropos: You represent the most demented, creepy kind of Korean: not only will you not accept your disgusting weaknesses as a nation, but you are particularly creepy and disgusting by questioning some poor girl’s rape. For God’s sake you’re disgusting.

    You’re Demented. And you’re Creepy. It’s the Korean reputation these days.

    I lived in Seoul for many years. I remember my foreign female friends constantly complaining about creepy Korean guys stalking them all the time. I also remember hearing women and girls being beaten all the time, in distant apartments and houses, wherever I lived.

    I go all over Asia — you creepies talk about the “Korean Wave”?? THe only “Korean Wave” I know about is the fact that everybody fucking hates Koreans more and more all the time…

    • Sillian

      And you don’t sound bitter and creepy at all.

      • jonnyg433

        LOL – it’s called standing up for the victim not the aggressor, if you’re wondering. I’m not surprised it sounds bitter or creepy to you, but for normal people with a heart, it’s called “compassion.”

        Go look it up in your dictionary.

        • Sillian

          So you seriously think you sound ‘compassionate’ writing garbage like that. Then it’s a matter of intelligence now.

    • Ngyun Lien

      So says the angry jealous white guy. You don’t speak for South East Asian women.

    • bumfromkorea

      See, this is the problem. TWO Korean trolls on this site, and the rest say shit like “You’re Demented. And you’re Creepy. It’s the Korean reputation these days”. You have any idea how many racist shits I meet personally in America? Does that mean Americans are fucking racists?

      As much as the two Korean trolls are acting reprehensibly, people like you are just projecting your expat/immigrant angst onto this subject. Neither of you are helpful, and both of you are basically the flip side of the same coin.

      • Sillian

        It’s like he’s using them as an excuse to post more garbage here.

  • Ryan Kim

    Women have always been 2nd class citizens in Korean society. Shouldn’t change now.

    • dk2020

      maybe you’ll understand when you get older actually have a gf and graduate middle school jashik sekki ..

      • Sillian

        He’s a hardcore troll. Don’t even touch him.

  • commander

    A growing number of men claim that there is little or negligible discrimination against women, while many women stand on their ground as to prevalent discrimination against woemen.

    Which claim is right?

    The perception difference comes from confusion about men who are in power and discriminate against women, and men who compete with women for jobs, promotions other scarce resources.

    Women who suffered discrimination from their bossess tend to complain to male peers to the effect that all discriminations against women are faults on mes’s side, promoting men who is not in power to unfairly treat women to call the claim bullshit.

    This underscores how ludicrous the polarization of men and women in a debate to diagnose and address the nagging discriminatory practice turns.

    Other factors in tackling the practice includes structural causes such as differences in upbringing of boys and girls, widespread conception of gender roles, and other stereotypes–elements helping sexdiscriminations perpetuate.

    Unproductive and confrontational blame game shoud give way to fruitful debate where consensus and blueprint for more gender-equitable world cand be hammered out.

  • Yu Tian

    You guys want to know why so many people in Korea go under the knife?

    If you weren’t lucky in the looks department, god help you if you are born in Korea, they treat you like shit, no seriously, lookism is unbelievable in Korea, you have to submit a photo with your resume to be considered!

    Korean men especially judge women on their looks, you know, the one’s that can never get the girl but still talks down to her as a ugly bitch when he’s having shots of soju with his buddies.

    It’s not equal at all, far from it.

    • sohoy

      it’s true Korean soften say “you look like a chinese person” in Korean when someone looks too Asian. It’s pretty unbelievable that white culture is the mainstream trend, anything to do with it is accepted. Shameless.

      • dk2020

        Who the hell wants to look Chinese? Ewwwwww ..

      • Rei Yu Tian

        I don’t think they are trying to be white, koreans have their own view on beauty.

    • dk2020

      Poor Korean women forced to get PS, China so superior .. no stories of rape and murder in ChinaSmack at all .. Chinese don’t get PS either .. oh wait .. Chinese developed an alternative to PS and its cheaper! So innovative its called the uniface .. they should come out with the China male version soon, just for you ..

      • Rei Yu Tian

        Lookism is rampant in China as well, Didn’t mean to offend you if you are Korean, I’m just sticking with the topic is all.

        • dk2020

          Lookism is rampant anywhere .. good looking people get better breaks in life thats just how it is .. double eyelid or nose job PS is not a big deal to me but I’ve never got it done .. do you know any people personally thats had PS? Can you say they are bad people?

          • Rei Yu Tian

            I had a few friends that went under the knife, they are not bad people. I don’t know where you got that from, please let me know. What I wanted to say originally was that Lookism is very obvious in Korea, and that Korean Men have a better break at it because it is a male-dominant society.

          • dk2020

            Old money is old money and they look out for each other, its nepotism more than anything else, same can be said for the 1% in the US and the powerful in China most exclusively all men.. If Korea is so male dominant why do they have the first woman president and womens rights organizations thats part of its govt like the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family? Does China have such a organization?

          • Rei Yu Tian

            I don’t think there is a need to drag old money families and other countries into this topic.

            Korean Women are slowly becoming more liberal, it’s a fact.

            But if you experienced it first hand, you can definitely tell that korea is still a predominately male society with a lot of double standards as indicated by the comic panel.

            Having a female president is just the beginning, not the end to this issue.

          • linette lee

            Your friends went under the knife? Really?? I have so many Chinese friends and none of them had any form of plastic surgery done. They are all natural. It is very hard to find young chinese person with any form of plastic surgery done. It’s not a Chinese culture. Not in Hong kong, china, singapore, or Taiwan. Some chinese celebrities had plastic surgeries but still majority of them never had anything done.

            I wonder for those that go get plastic done at such a young age like 16 or 17 to alter their physically appearance, what do they think when they reach 28 30 when they are older and understand life a little bit more. Do they regret it. When you change your eye, nose, face shape you are no longer you. You don’t look like you.

          • Tang Wei

            Most Chinese celebrities had some form of plastic surgery, don’t kid yourself. Most Chinese will deny this, but it is well known in the celebrity circles.

          • linette lee

            http://www.theplace2.ru/archive/tang_wei/img/0013729c050d0903cb4f.jpg

            where’s the plastic? Don’t be stupid.

            Chinese don’t like clones.

          • Tang Wei

            Then you’re not being honest, like many Chinese. Just because the Chinese media fails to report this phenomenon on the principle of national pride and censorship, it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Chinese are very much into plastic surgery, because the numbers of Chinese getting plastic surgery virtually doubles every year, which means the growth in number of procedures outstrips every other country. China is the fastest growing country in terms of surgery. The only reason why there aren’t more surgeries is because there’s still lot of poor Chinese who can’t afford it, but would get them if they could and if they had the money.

            Look at this article for instance. Women go under the knife to get jobs and husbands.

            http://www.ibtimes.com/chinas-plastic-surgery-culture-going-under-knife-hopes-getting-job-1372311

            An excerpt from the article:

            “A wave of plastic surgery culture has hit China as women from across socio-economic classes invest in surgery in hopes that it will improve their careers as well as their social lives. “Your nose is too flat,” a plastic surgery consultant in the southern Chinese city of Shenzhen told
            Joanna Chiu of The Daily Beast.“A well-shaped nose commands respect. Businessmen come in to get
            more-prominent noses. And ladies have better chances in both career and love after their operations.””

          • Bird Flock

            China has a lot of unreported plastic surgeries. In fact, I dare say most of the plastic surgeries go unreported and don’t end up on paper because most of the surgeries are the back alley illegal procedures done by anybody including hairdressers or loan shark mafias. Actually most of the surgeries are all illegals so they don’t show up on the figures.

          • linette lee

            I find that very hard to believe. Chinese using back alley cosmetic clinic. Where do they find the chinese plastic surgeons for nose job at the back alley in China? China is not that advance in plasty yet. They don’t have enough patients to practice procedures on neither.
            And so is Korea. They use local doctors that has no license because it’s cheaper. They don’t use those reputable clinics. So so many cases go unreported. Also the koreans don’t consider double eyelids or nose job plastic surgery. They call them permanent make up. Or minor touch up.

            Don’t talk about the Chinese dumb a55. Whenever you guys get bashed for your culture problem like plasty you have to pull Chinese into it and say chinese are worst. What a bunch of a55 holes and liars.

          • Bird Flock

            lol… i don’t think anybody can beat the Chinese when it comes to fake plastic surgeries and fake doctors and fake medicine and fake everything. You guys are the greatest makers of fakes, period bar none. Chinese are the worst in everything, I’m sorry to tell you the truth.

          • linette lee

            Fake or cheaper copies whatever you call it. When clients like you who are cheap and want to buy cheap copies you know you are getting the fake one. You get what you pay for. The Chinese never told you it’s the authentic. They let you know it’s just a copy. I go to China town and so many non Chinese buying fake stuff. But I hardly see any chinese buy them. The Chinese want the real thing. lol. So don’t support these companies that make fake stuff. Don’t buy them. I don’t support them. I do have to say the Chinese are impressive making copies. They can basically make anything using cheaper materials. Made in China. lol.

            I think you are a fake also. Can’t show your face here right. A faker and in denial. So typical in your country. lol.

          • dk2020

            Is this what happens when you go to Chinese PS? Why isn’t this story on CS? It’s all over the web ..

          • linette lee

            So why don’t you go ask the foreigners living inside China. Ask them how many chinese people they see had plastic surgeries. 9 out of 10 chinese don’t have any forms of plastic surgeries. Almost 10 out 10 chinese younger than 18 never had any form of plastic surgeries.

            Or you can go to China yourself and take a look. Go to Hong kong or singapore and take a look yourself with your own eyes.
            Taiwan celebrities have a bit more but still no where near other country.

          • Tang Wei

            And when was the last time you were in China? You’re probably from North America, and you have no ideal what changes there are in China. I see lot of Chinese with plastic surgery, with double eye lid surgeries the most common. Your figures don’t mean anything because they’re not scientific, just your opinion. At this rate of growth in plastic surgery crazy we are, we’re going to catch up soon and even bypass, so don’t be so arrogant.

          • linette lee

            ARe you Chinese ? You had plastic surgery? On Where? How old are you?

          • Tang Wei

            I never had plastic surgery, but I know my family members did get them. Of course, they never say they got them, because they’re too embarassed understandably. Only we know the truth.

          • linette lee

            Are you Chinese ? Are you above 18 or under? many Koreans start very young as young as 14. With eyes first. That is NOT A CHINESE culture. So don’t say chinese also. IT’s very insulting.

          • dk2020

            China still have the PS beauty pageants? Commies won’t give up the stats about PS in China either, when has China have freedom of speech anyways? Ai Weiwei got locked up for that .. dafuq is a “leftover woman” in Chinese culture?

            http://jezebel.com/chinas-female-workers-turning-to-cosmetic-surgery-to-s-1019225728

          • You’re subjectively interpreting the data. You even admitted yourself:

            “The only reason why there aren’t more surgeries is because there’s still lot of poor Chinese who can’t afford it, but would get them if they could and if they had the money.”

            Even though you consider the above statement to be “proving” your point, in reality, it contradicts it, because your point was that plastic surgery is pervasive amongst Chinese, and yet you acknowledge that it *isn’t* pervasive amongst Chinese because most Chinese are still too poor to even afford it. The reason *why* it isn’t pervasive is not important (or knowable, frankly); the point is that Linette’s claim that none of her Chinese friends had any plastic surgery may very well be true and you’re frankly spewing a prejudiced stereotype by claiming that her friends must be lying. Just because someone’s Chinese means he or she must have had plastic surgery? Really? You don’t think there’s anything bigoted about that statement?

            China has had rapid growth in practically EVERYTHING for the past few years––automobiles, electronics, luxury goods, and all sorts of eccentric niche industries that I couldn’t even begin to imagine. Insane growth in China is frankly the status quo. Don’t forget that with a low base and a total population of 1.3 billion, “extreme growth” might not mean all that much for the majority of the country.

          • Tang Wei

            I said the only reason why there aren’t EVEN MORE than there is already, which is a totally different meaning than what you meant.

          • linette lee

            “In Greece, penis enlargements are performed……….”

            those horny bastad……hahaha….lol. XD

      • bumfromkorea

        Yeah! As long as Korea’s better than China, who gives a shit if the “lookism” (there’s gotta be a more elegant way of saying that) is running rampant and destroying the societal fabric of Korea?

      • Sillian

        There is no need to talk about another country. Lookism in Korea is a real issue. They make it too obvious that ‘better-looking’ people are treated better.

        • dk2020

          I know it is, but that goes along with superficiality and materialism .. what can you do about it? ban PS, bb cream, mirrors everywhere? there are no anti-discrimination laws in hiring either right? average looking people just live their lives ..

    • chucky3176

      While we often get scorned for openness toward cosmetic surgery, other Asian countries simply admire our looks secretly while they scorn us snobbishly outwardly. Look at how many Chinese, Vietnamese, Malaysians, Japanese, you name it, want to look like us, and will not spare anything to achieve them.

      Asian plastic surgery patient tourists keep the Korean hospitals from going under.

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-29/gangnam-style-nip-and-tuck-draws-tourists-to-seoul-s-beauty-belt.html

      • Rei Yu Tian

        I could careless about people undergoing surgery, lookism is very prevalent and if it makes the individual happier then I’d say go for it. I just want to have a look at her childhood pictures before I tie the knot, haha.

        • linette lee

          If you men don’t care about plastic surgeries then you shouldn’t ask your girlfriend for childhood picture before tying the knot.
          I will get very offended if my man ask me for my childhood picture before he consider marrying me.

          • Rei Yu Tian

            The unspoken rule is, if someone had plastic surgery that heavily altered their appearance, they’re suppose to notify their partner.

            Did you not read the news report of a man suing his wife after their baby did not come out how “it should have looked”?

            Fact is, men care about a women’s appearance, and that they care even more for their children’s appearance. Which is why men place a lot of emphasis on looks.

          • dk2020

            Funny and the guy that sued was Chinese ..

          • Rei Yu Tian

            There are incidents like this all over Asia, a few in Taiwan, Mainland China, Korea, etc.

            There’s no need to single out the issue to a particular nation. I think it’s more important that people learn how to solve the problem rather than blaming each other on who’s worse.

          • dk2020

            PS is not illegal ..you would seriously break up with a woman if you found out she got PS done? SMH ..

      • linette lee

        Only the ones with psychological problems or abused by their mothers, being told they are not pretty enough when they were kids and need plastic surgery would want to look like you people in korea. Don’t want to be natural and want to be plastic. Normal happy children loved by their parents and often being told by their parents that they are beautiful just the way they are don’t grow up wanting to be all plastic from head to toe.

        There was nothing wrong with them before plastic.
        http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gl5J7ezkCbY/URHQF9n86RI/AAAAAAAAVS8/ylntjwO9Bf0/s400/4.jpg

        Child abuse.
        http://cdn.evonnz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/12763908076501842-412×550.jpg

  • bigmamat

    I can’t find the article but I read it this week. That a sex crime was reported every 26 minutes in S.Korea. This figure was up and the article attributed the rise in reporting to a more “western way of thinking”. I don’t know how they came to that conclusion. Anyway I still can’t find the article but I did find this…http://m.yna.co.kr/mob2/en/contents_en.jsp?cid=AEN20130722005600315&domain=3&ctype=A&site=0100000000&mobile Yohap news service reports that reporting of sex crimes is up but actual arrests are down. I wonder how long it will take for people to figure out that reporting a sex crime in Korea doesn’t necessarily lead to an arrest.

    • dk2020

      yes, korean journalism at its finest .. western way of thinking leads to more rapes .. of course thats conclusive ..

      • bigmamat

        No that isn’t correct. The article attributed the rise in REPORTING sex crimes to a more “western way of thinking”, individual rights. I was just wondering how at the time they came to that conclusion. That’s not to say that Korea doesn’t have a habit of blaming things on foreigners. They do require all foreign ESL teachers be tested for STDs as well as drug screening. The STD testing is fairly recent and in response to the notion that AIDs comes from foreign countries like the U.S. Of course with hundreds of thousands of sex workers in Korea some of them from southeast asia I not sure why they decided that foreign english language teachers posed the greater threat.

        • dk2020

          Do you live in ROK? If not, you have nothing to worry about then right? Korean media has a flair for being over sensational to sell “news” and I don’t really trust it. Of course this is KoreaBang so thats what they are reflecting and all this vitriol by expats that contribute nothing means nothing .. life goes on in the land of the morning calm..

          I’m glad for this report and women’s rights organizations like the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family. Because they are truly making the difference in Korean society ..

          • bigmamat

            I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. No I don’t live in the ROK so what has that got to do with what is being discussed. If you are glad for the report then you should be concerned about the article because it spent a lot of page space attempting to debunk the figures based on ad hominem arguments such as women like being taken care of and made their own decisions to stay home and raise kids. Not only that the fact that the writer found it necessary to include so many comments from Ilbe a place notorious for it’s male centric gender attitudes. Doesn’t exactly give it balance.

          • Sillian

            “attempting to debunk the figures based on ad hominem arguments”

            While the article’s argument has flaws, I do find very valid points.

            As I said below…
            “For example, Lesotho’s 37/23 ranked first while Korea’s 95/96 ranked at 91st in one of the criteria in the table. It is 1st vs 91st but everyone will agree that Korea’s situation is much more desirable. This is a good example of how the ranking can mislead you when you don’t know the ‘full story’.”

            It’s at whooping 91st according to the methodology used by the survey only because 37/23(1.60) >> 95/96(0.99). But Korea fares exponentially better in this in any practical sense. However, the ranking alone can still create a funny response like below.

            “Korea’s equality in education only ranked at 99th?! That sucks! Korea seriously needs to change their education system to allow women to study!”

            Instead of going the route of chanting “Korea ranked at 108th! Women are suffering!”, the media and civic groups should be more critically and analytically using the data after checking the breakdown and methodology of the survey. This is a main point.

            Just like you can’t claim Korea’s gender equality is among the top because Korea ranked at 11th in some ranking by the UN Development Program. Everyone needs to be very specific when they use statistical data for their arguments.

          • bigmamat

            OK so I get your point. We talk about this subject a lot in the U.S. and I’ll just say up front that I do not find it rational or fair to compare S.Korea to the U.S. on any level. Let me ask you this, are you Korean or at least live in Korea? Do you think Korea has gender inequality issues? How important are they, if they do?

          • Sillian

            I’m an overseas Korean. Ofc Korea has gender inequality issues to deal with. To make real changes, people need to come to a consensus first. It seems to me Korea is still having trouble identifying where and how sexual discrimination is manifested. Anti-MOGEF sentiment is very strong at least online as it is seen as one big politicized feminist group rather than a transparent organization that values equal opportunity. One factor that makes it complicated is that Korean men do one more duty than women in the military. Some of them find it so unfair that they become emotionally quick to dismiss women’s complaints as greedy whines. Both men and women can fall in the trap of only looking at outrageous examples from the opposite gender to justify their sense of victimhood.

            I suppose women can experience discrimination most bluntly in the private corporate sector. It’s something statistical so those who haven’t personally witnessed or experienced discrimination against women may not feel very strong about it. Institutions like MOGEF should do an excellent job of informing and persuading people, using an array of hard facts and data. Unfortunately it seems they haven’t gained a lot of trust in how they handle the affair.

          • bigmamat

            Well there is an article over at One Free Korea it’s about a RAND study on the collapse of North Korea. The article suggests the ROK should look towards expanding a volunteer army. That is actually another subject and makes my point exactly. JUST because women don’t serve in the military is not an excuse for women being given 2nd class citizenship in Korea. The argument doesn’t hold up. It’s still an example of whining….I wonder if the Man of Korea guys know that they actually sound like a bunch of girls…

          • Sillian

            The military service imposed only on men cannot be an excuse for discrimination against women, right. But if you tell the complainers to man up and stop whining like a bunch of girls, doesn’t that reek of machismo?

          • bigmamat

            Yeah it does and I was just being a little bit of a smart ass. Here’s the way it is, Korean men, like ALL men for that matter have had the upper hand in this situation and they still do. Women as group did not create the mandatory military service system that is the backbone of the Korean military, men did that. Because for the most part men are still in charge of Korea, it’s politics and it’s social structure. I have no direct evidence but I don’t see a huge “women’s movement” in the behavior of the average Korean woman. The backlash against tougher domestic violence laws and affirmative action programs for women is just knee jerk fear on the part of men. Men may not even realize it but they are just reacting to the possibility of losing their place at the top. It’s a natural reaction and that it’s happening now while the world is still in an economic downward spiral doesn’t help matters.

          • Sillian

            It seems you argue that since men created the military system, it’s none of business for women. But they are defending the country not only for men. Do you think they should abolish conscription? Is there a better alternative?

          • bigmamat

            No I wasn’t suggesting that women didn’t benefit from it, only that they very likely had very little say so as group in it’s design. So now that men are butthurt about women’s rights they drag this out as an excuse for women to have less rights than men. Do I think there is a better alternative. Oh yeah, I do but that’s a different discussion altogether.

    • Sillian

      Reporting any crime anywhere doesn’t necessarily lead to an arrest. We can talk about the rates. This website claims that in America,12 out of 46 reported rape cases lead to an arrest. Do you think it’s legit?

      http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates

      • bigmamat

        I’m not sure I get your point. No, I don’t know if it’s legit or not. I suppose I could google and see. I know there are A LOT of statistics on crime and rape in the U.S. I did read last week that a rape is reported every 2 minutes in the U.S. (Please don’t make me find it.) Then I saw an article today that stated a sex crime was reported every 25 minutes in the ROK. But the report was careful to note that this included things like groping and wasn’t just for rape.

        • Sillian

          Maybe I didn’t get your point first. I didn’t understand why you said “I wonder how long it will take for people to figure out that reporting a sex crime in Korea doesn’t necessarily lead to an arrest.” Because everyone knows reporting a crime doesn’t necessarily lead to an arrest.

          • bigmamat

            Well I said that because I find the article to be very similar to a lot of articles I see coming out of Korea when the subject is critical of or may show Korea in a negative way. The ROK appears to be very sensitive about it’s image. I also know that women’s rights are a controversial subject in Korea just like they are here. I know you want to dispute the figures directly but much of the article made other types of wild suggestions such as….”What’s urgently needed for us is to move away from the one-sided policy that gives women absolute privileges.” …

            Even with my limited knowledge of Korea. I haven’t seen anything in the news or in writing that the government has instituted policies that give women absolute privileges. Much of this article sounds absurd. So if I don’t bother to dismiss the UN Development figures out of hand please forgive me. I’m certainly not convinced to question them based on the person’s argument. It’s sounds to me like a long rant by a butthurt misogynist.

          • Sillian

            Have you tried googling with ‘affirmative action in Korea’?

          • bigmamat

            No why? Is there a problem with it? I have to assume it’s designed for women since Korea doesn’t really have any minorities.

          • Sillian

            Yea, it’s for women mainly.

          • dk2020

            Women rights wasn’t automatically given in the West by progressive men in their countries .. it was fought for by struggle by women themselves .. same with equal rights by minorities with the civil rights movement .. you might condemn Korea for being a horrible place for women and minorities but I’m an optimist and I do see progress ..

          • bigmamat

            I’m sorry if you thought I was condemning anyone that isn’t the case. I am well aware of the hard fight women have had in the U.S. in order to secure the same privileges as men. We weren’t even given the right to vote until 1920. It’s taken many years for women to get as far as they have in the U.S. in politics, business and social standing. The feminist moment of the 60s and 70s brought women a long way forward. I don’t think modern American women fully appreciate that life for them would be a lot different if not for the work of their grandmothers and mothers over the course of the countries development.

  • Sid Driver

    Korea may have a long way to go but at least it’s moving in the right direction. I have both Korean and Foreign female friends and have seen every side of the coin. Foreign men towards Foreign and Korean girls and Korean men towards Foreign and Korean girls. The point of the story is that something should be done to help make things equal. Playing the blame game only gets us farther away from that goal. Working together and slowly changing minds over time will get us there!

    • dk2020

      Well said Sid .. I totally agree ..

  • David

    . . . and every Korean man is shocked and most non-Koreans are not.

    • bigmamat

      Well if they are shocked then they haven’t been paying attention.

      • David

        Well, not to be so blatant but it is easy to miss things when your head is in the sand.

        • bigmamat

          Or when you’re sitting in the top position and don’t want to lose it. Backlash against women’s rights is nothing more than male fear of losing their place at the top of the food chain.

          • David

            As a guy who has always liked strong competent women, I find it funny (in any country not just Korea) that so many men do not want a life partner who can keep up with them physically and intellectually. I mean they only thing almost as good as sex is a nice heated debate with a smart and informed woman.

          • bigmamat

            Men that like their women compliant and subservient are compensating for their own short comings. No pun intended.

          • David

            I find it funny when men are scared of strong women. Why would you not want a life partner who can keep up with you both physically and intellectually? I like strong women and the only thing better then good sex is a great conversation or debate with somebody who can bring it. I guess that is why my wife is strong willed and why I raised my daughter to be a no-BS ball buster.

          • bigmamat

            I have had a couple of debates about this with Koreans, men and women alike. I can’t seem to make them understand that strong empowered women are good for society not bad. I really can’t seem to make them understand that sexual freedom for women is also good for men. Now I could be wrong but from my limited and long distance observations there appear to be three kinds of women in Korea, whores, maddonas and adjumma. Of course out of the three adjumma hold the most power.

  • commander

    Burgeoning female presence in economoc activities, an increasingly growing proportion of women public posts, wider acceptance of double income coupes, spread of maternity leave as a just right, and louder voices for women empowerment–all these elements legitimately discredit the World Economic Forum report that puts South Korea at 108th in gender equality.

    Oh there is one more. The incresing number of women smoking in public.

    The authors of the report might pen it without verifying changing landscape in South Korea in terms of women’s growing role.

  • Pete of Perth
  • Pingback: Korean Government Releases "Discriminatory" Android Application()

  • Aiken

    Reality check please? Korean men are still in denial stage. Stop traumatizing kate.

    • Kate closed her account.. trolls will be trolls and the internets is full of them..

      who is the mod for KB? can you please delete Kate’s pic for her privacy..

  • face it

    As a Korean girl lived in Korea over 27 years, I don’t even surprise that men blame rape victims. As for this report, it clearly shows Korean men doesn’t have willing to make the society better. If girls say ” There are inequality problem we have suffered from.” Korean guys are very upset, say ” You sensitive femi bitch. You mean, man doesn’t have any problems to live? No it’s NOT!!!” So just like that, every trials to relieve inequality become ‘Man-hating’…Now I escaped to Canada. I feel truly safe and free. I don’t have to think about my look and sexual harassment (and so many other things) much. But I feel very sorry for women still live in Korea. I’ve been harassed more than 20 times though my life. I won’t go back. Anyway this is all I can say. Please do not ignore what happen in Korea. We still fight against those anger and violence etc

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