Anti Chinese-Korean Sentiment on Rise in Wake of Fresh Attack

A Seoul Convenience Store

In the wake of the Suwon Torso Murder, that saw a Chinese-Korean immigrant brutally murder a girl in Seoul earlier this month, fresh allegations are emerging of another attempted murder by a ‘Joseonjok‘ [조선족/朝鮮族] (ethnic Korean Chinese person).

In a short article posted on Nate that attracted over 2000 comments just hours after being posted, a story is emerging that suggests a 31 year old intoxicated male of Chinese-Korean origin stabbed a 19 year old female employee of a Seoul convenience store 6-7 times, allegedly until his knife eventually snapped. Early news suggests that the man had got into an argument with the convenience store employee after she refused to open his bottle of alcohol and asked him not to drink on the premises.

Since the Suwon case, anti-Joseonjok sentiment has been on the rise in South Korea with more nuanced voices doing their best to offer restraint. Whilst details of this new event are still sketchy, it comes at a time that sees Chinese-Koreans already catapulted to the heart of the Korean media and is thus a story that provokes largely negative responses from netizens. In addition, the debate on multiculturalism in South Korea is still at its height following the election of Jasmine Lee, a Korean citizen of Filipino descent, to congress earlier this month.

The article has been re-posted on most major South Korean media outlets. Below is a selection of the most “liked” of the 2000+ comments the story has attracted so far.

Comments from Nate:

함운형:

He was stabbing so furiously he didn’t even notice the weapon had broken…Chinese-Koreans are scary. They’re really giving me chills down my spine this morning…

이도경:

AGAIN?????? We need to take better steps to prevent this sort of thing. Will people who work at night just have to live in fear from now on?

임준형:

For god’s sake, we should just call Joseonjok North Koreans since they both seem to running around with weapons all the time.

이정현:

Wow, there are actually people who just carry knives around with them.

김미진:

Let’s please deport these illegal immigrants. They’ll be killing all the Korean people if things go on like this.

김진섭:

Let’s not use the word Joseonjok. They’re just illegal Chinese immigrants.

김병식:

We really urgently need to put into practice some measures against crimes committed by the Joseonjok. I hope those kinds of heavy crimes are very seriously dealt with.

이현정:

Ah really, these frickin’ Joseonjoks!!! Just look at how many incidents involving Joseonjok have happened in this year alone. And these incidents are all murders… Please be done with multiculturalism, which doesn’t work anyway, and expel all the illegal immigrants!!

김동환:

So Joseonjoks tend to carry around a knife by default? You would be a saint if you didn’t feel hostility against them, with all these incidents happening so frequently.

이진영:

There is a Joseonjok at my hagwon who works in Dongdae-mun at night and comes to the hagwon during the day. I was curious how they came to Korea even though they didn’t have a working permit, so asked them. They said that from several years ago, they’ve been giving out work permits with no conditions to some Joseonjok by balloting from those who applied ;;; It gave me a chill down the spine to think that all kinds of weird people with unknown identities can enter our country.

김민정:

There is another article for April 24th, today, on a Joseonjok person who killed yet another person. He killed the female victim while he was let out free, after the judge dismissed the arrest warrant regarding no possibility of him running away…. This article is the main news on Naver, but Nate doesn’t show this on its main page. Nate has the most number of clicks out of all portal sites in terms of news articles, so why hasn’t this news come up on Nate yet?

Joseonjok are really scary.

I really hate our laws too.  Judges and legislators, your families can become victims too. We need to strengthen the punishment and reinstate the death penalty. Rights of the inflicter?? Hell with it.

Should we protect the human rights of those who violate others’?

This makes no sense, why do we protect Joseonjok??

Aren’t they really just Chinese after all???

They are just one of many ethnic minorities in China, just like the Han or Zhuang Chinese.

Don’t take the Joseonjok’s side.  Since when has Korea, world famous for its great society, become like this?  I don’t want to generalise about Joseonjok but this is serious. How can the rate of 1 in 100 000 (that is a criminal) and the rate 1 in two be regarded equal?

It’s only now that this is revealed, but it was a known fact for almost everyone that Joseonjoks carry knives in areas like Ansan, with a lot of foreign workers. Guess what the Joseonjok say about this atmosphere around Koreans now?

They say we won’t even breathe a word if we saw them in the flesh. It’s not only Joseonjok, but foreign workers from South Asia, like the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis who stare at Korean girls who pass by, continually without taking their eyes off. Why do WE have to live shut up and quiet in OUR land??? To hell with nonsense like multiculturalism ㅠㅠ

김영주:

Let’s prevent the immigration of Joseonjoks from now on. They are merely Chinese people who can speak good Korean. Really disgusting, so disgusting.

이오열:

There are loads of Chinese people in Shin-gil dong, Daerim-dong and around Yeongdeungpo-gu [area of Seoul where the incident is said to have taken place]. Even I get scared while walking on dimly-lite streets at night. Their basic idea of human life seems to be different from that of ours… Please establish some measures… How can we live with this fear!

홍상우:

What is the government doing? The people are dying out there beause of the Chinks but this state is out of government sight apparently? Tsk, we’re approaching doomsday with this… They should really prepare some measures.

홍상우:

The word Joseonjok disgusts me… Replace that with Murder-jok [‘jok’ means race]…They deserve beating to death. They should shut up and live quietly while they are in someone else’s country, but they are going around murdering people…Tut tut, I really wonder if the Korean government actually does something called thinking .

홍상우:

If it happened in some other country, they would have expelled the Joseonjok and banned their immigration… Please, fucking government, make some efforts for the people…

김은선:

Dare you still discuss multiculturalism? I wish the Joseonjok people could be sent back to their own country if we didn’t need them desperately…

최종원:

Well, let alone what’s mentioned in the article, [there are] guys who come to convenience stores at night…really, please don’t try to drink alcohol inside the convenience store. It’s not a pub nor it is your house.

권대영:

Send back those Joseonjok sons of bitches to their motherland China. Don’t let them earn money in our country. The previous government has done a shitty thing… They don’t even check their fingerprints. The crime rate increases. And we came to hate the foreigners… I don’t like the Westerners but these days I hate foreigners because of social crimes. Although, our own people still do many disgusting things and cause us a lot of headaches.

이휘민:

Such a waste of the word Joseonjok. Get lost, you Chinks.

이장용:

We’ve let them ride as long as we could. Please prepare special laws regarding the Joseonjok, only allow immigration and work of people with specific minimum education and property, make measures such as expelling all the illegal immigrants and arresting all those with weapons as potential murders, with no exceptions. I will only vote for a candidate with such points in their pledge at the Presidential election.

김영상:

We should eliminate working visa for the Joseonjok. And drive all the illegal immigrants out .

박주희:

I never used to understand those skinheads and people like that from the West, but now I understand them a little.

이종문:

I know how scary the Joseonjok is, from my experience as a conscripted policeman… Joseonjok people allegedly satisfy their anger only by killing someone they have started fighting with… Really.

최경식:

He stabbed a girl with a knife who was working in a convenience store, at a young age, and not even earning much per hour? And he even stabbed her several times. I’m worried how much pain she would go through from now on, with the trauma about part-time jobs now that she has suffered an incident like that.

박지민:

There are articles on Joseonjok’s crime every day… It really scares me. I shall vote for the candidate who puts forward a pledge about driving out Joseonjok and illegal immigrants, at the coming Presidential election.

김정길:

I want to rip to death all the trashes who left the country complaining of their suffering after we gained liberty, and now make a fucking show presenting themselves as descendents of patriots who fought for liberty. Expel all the trash Chinky bastards, who have established the platform for a takeover of Seoul during the Korean War, acting as cat’s-paw for the Chinese Communist army. They are now acting as informants at the frontline of China’s Northeast project.

유종하:

As long as Jasmine Lee is in Congress, we will not be able to drive Joseonjok out and soon the sons and daughters of the Joseonjok will also immigrate ^^

송유정:

The sense of inferiority of Joseonjok people beats all others. In fact we should see Chinese and Joseonjok as separate. Joseonjok people are not treated properly even in China. All kinds of things happen in China but these things can be just laughed at. They are just trash Joseonjok, rather than Chinese.

하태곤:

Vote ‘up’ for my comments if you think ‘Joseonjoks are Chinese’ and ‘down’ if you think ‘Joseonjoks are our compatriots’.

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  • Bay Area Guy

    I found this comment particularly interesting.

    I never used to understand those skinheads and people like that from the West, but now I understand them a little.

    In many ways, this illustrates that multiculturalism necessarily results in racial tension, xenophobia, etc.

    When Korea and similarly homogenous societies used to be, well, homogenous, they didn’t have race/ethnic problems. However, now that Korea is become more “diverse,” there has been a xenophobic backlash, which almost always accompanies such demographic changes.

    (which is why, due to immigration/multiculturalism, the far right in Europe is on the rise again)

    Korea now faces a critical choice. Open its borders, embrace multiculturalism, and use immigrants as a temporary shot in the arm to the economy, or economically stagnate, and yet retain its racial and cultural integrity.

    Two conflicting models for Korea in this regard are the West (particularly the U.S. and Europe) and Japan. The West has opened its borders to the point where white Westerners are projected to eventually become minorities in many Western countries. On the one hand, the West has been able to maintain a large supply of labor. But at the same time, it has been consumed by racial tension, riots, underachieving minority groups (except for Asians, who perform better than whites), along with a whole host of other problems.

    Japan, on the other hand, has closed its doors to immigrants. Its population is aging, shrinking, and it’s becoming less competitive (although it’s still the #3 economy in the world, and has about 1/13 of China’s population).

    At the same time, Japanese society remains orderly, cohesive, and united. It doesn’t have various racial/ethnic ghettos, underachieving 2nd generation immigrants (like Hispanics in the U.S. or Pakistanis in Britain), race riots, aggressive identity politics, etc.

    Even though Japan may continue to decline in terms of prominence and influence, I think that their approach towards immigration and multiculturalism has been far superior to that of the West.

    Korea would be wise to remain Korea. Immigration just replaces one problem with another.

    • Brett Sanbon

      Bullshit, every “homogenous” society was killing, raping, and enslaving each other. Multiculturism is just your new excuse for every problem because its always been easier to say “he did it, not me!” Spare me the long-winded lecture. Ive heard enough over the past 2 weeks that if I read “tribe” again, I may very well vomit.

      • Brett Sanbon

        Guess I mean “homogenous ≠ harmonious”. So lets just talk about the topics that are fun like Lady Gaga and those crazy Christians! mmmmmkay?

        • Seoul less

          then don’t click on this link and get to the other topic dbag

          • Bruce Tutty

            Get a life, you ain’t the censor

          • Seoul less

            to the comment below
            censor? da fck you talkin’ about?

            get a brain.

          • Brett Sanbon

            I see you haven’t contributed to this story.. why are you here?

      • Bay Area Guy

        every “homogenous” society was killing, raping, and enslaving each other.

        An ultimately irrelevant fact.

        At least intraracial/ethnic/national conflict is not existential in nature. Various nations in Europe have undergone devastating civil wars, and yet those nations for a while remained German, English, Russian, etc.

        However, with immigration and multiculturalism (coupled with the high fertility rate of minorities), very soon these various European nations will cease being German, English, etc, and will not be recognizable anymore.

        Besides, logically speaking, this whole “homogenous societies raped and killed each other” line is very weak. If anything, that’s yet another argument against multiculturalism. Countries have a hard enough time resolving religious, political, and class based conflicts. Why not add a large number of visible racial minorities to the mix while we’re at it?

        • Brett Sanbon

          Seriously? You think this topic is more interesting than Lee hyori’s hotness over at the “Lady Gaga” story? Whatever floats your boat. Im gonna leave now but have fun with Pauly here in the “relevant” article.

        • Bruce Tutty

          “An ultimately irrelevant fact. ”

          then you go on to fantasise about what future Europe will be like?

          These countries are still the same countries, and have not become multicultural on the whole. Sure there are little enclaves of other cultures, but outside of extremists, they integrate in the the main culture, not the other way around.

          And “intraracial/ethnic/national conflict is not existential in nature” is not true, as you only ned to see the conflict between one wolf pack, and another.

          You need consider these things more when discussing, as simply putting your own view forwards with taking into account others thoughts, means your answer will always be simple.
          What Brett appeared to be saying is that it akes little difference who or what makes up you culture, the voilence is an out-on-control emotional reaction, not a cultural one.

          • Brett Sanbon

            Thanks for clearing that up. Bunch of nitpickers in this thread.

      • FYIADragoon

        Sounds like someone dreams of moving to Korea and getting a wifey…

        • Brett Sanbon

          Already did ;) Although we are not a typical couple. Met in China years ago, did the long distance dating. At the time she didn’t speak English and I didn’t speak Korean. We were communicating in Chinese for 4 years.

          • FYIADragoon

            God, I really hope I’m being trolled hard rather than having someone actually get nailed by an ad hominem attack.

          • Brett Sanbon

            FYI a Crab Rangoon~
            Are you laughing at me from behind your screen? Make personal attacks if you wish :)

          • FYIADragoon

            I’m hungry, are you a crab rangoon? The FYI doesn’t stand for For Your Information by the way ^_^

    • .

      You are really freaking stupid.

      Just saying.

      Don’t talk about what is going on in Europe if you don’t understand it/live it.
      Though overall your impression of multiculturalism on the world is also pretty ignorant.

      • Brett Sanbon

        I dont think he gets that all the people back west causing a ruckus over dwindling white population are all considered bigots and insecure racists.

        • .

          I’m sure he doesn’t. Most likely cause he lives somewhere where he’s privilaged above others.
          People that can’t get off their high horse and put themselves in other people situations piss the hell out of me.

          • Bay Area Guy

            Okay, Mr. Period, rather than continuing to resort to lame ad hominems, care to actually address my actual arguments?

          • .

            I didn’t address your arguments because they are like you just said lame and show how much you don’t understand what these problems involve. And I don’t like wasting my time with idiots.
            But let me start by saying how in the world is a Nazi apologist comment an interesting thing? Do you even grasp what was the second world war? Do you have any Jewish or minority relatives/family? Most likely no, so stfu.
            The 20% french that voted, which I’m sure you most love them, are nothing but closed, weak minded citizens who have been played by the media. The most important thing when it comes to multiculturalism and immigration is the media. It controls all and until the media changes their way benefiting by inducing fear, idiots like you will think being racist and xenophobic is the way to go and that there’s nothing wrong with that.
            And no, I’m not calling Europeans ignorant. I am calling you and people you have the type of mindset you have, ignorant.

          • Bay Area Guy

            Mr. Period:

            I didn’t address your arguments because they are like you just said lame and show how much you don’t understand what these problems involve. And I don’t like wasting my time with idiots.

            In other words, I’m intellectually lazy and unwilling to seriously debate someone who has different views from me. Therefore, I’m just going to throw a hissy fit and call my ideological enemies stupid and ignorant, without making any substantive arguments.

            Sounds about right, and sadly, very typical of your ilk.

          • FYIADragoon

            Oh boy, another Jew. How are things going with your illegal settlements and oppression/murder of Muslims? Boy did you guys sure learn how to treat others like you want to be treated after what the Nazis did, eh? I guess the USA needs their own bloodthirsty xenophobic state to keep up with China.

        • Bay Area Guy

          I dont think he gets that all the people back west causing a ruckus over dwindling white population are all considered bigots and insecure racists.

          Considered as such by WHOM?

          So are you essentially arguing that everyone around the world who’s concerned about demographic change and their impending minority status is mentally ill/unstable, as well as nasty racists?

          How typical.

          • Brett Sanbon

            No

          • Bay Area Guy

            Okay, if not, what’s your point then?

          • Brett Sanbon

            If you were to read through the websites that are typical of people shouting out in rage over the influx of immigrants into America, most likely you will stumble across 2 of the most popular news websites in the country. First being Fox News, and the second is Yahoo! News.

            Not only are these people considered as being radicals and bigots, but as the worst of the worst on the internet. http://yahoonewscommentsareawesome.tumblr.com/
            A quick Google search can find sites on Fox as well.

            My point is that the majority of the educated in America are not concerning themselves with legal immigrants overtaking the white population.

            Where I think everyone, including yourself, can agree is the issue of illegal immigration. But in this thread, we are all grouping immigrants (or Korean vs. non-Korean) together.

            What Korea can do is limit the number of immigrants that it allows to enter the country. I am not sure of the policy that is in place now, but I imagine the Immigration Dept. is not doing enough to keep track of the who, where, why, and when factors. Who is coming in? Who are their contacts in Korea? Where are they living? Why are they here? When/how often must they keep in contact?

            The problem that no one seems to be addressing is just how easy it actually is for someone to stay in Korea illegally. One suggestion is to make mandatory visits to immigration centers, every few months to update living status, address, employment. Lists of references, family, friends should be mandatory to gain entrance for migrant workers. Fingerprints are now a must (I am not sure for Joseonjok) for all non-Korean citizens entering Korea.

            My main beef with you and Paulie and Sayitlikeitis is that you are bringing up all of the negative aspects of multiculturism without offering usable solutions. (I see Paulie wrote a little somethin somethin down below. Although, he is confusing his wish of only those with 100% Korean blood to naturalize, with actual Korean’s wish of that not being allowed… especially with regards to Joseonjok.)

            Anything else I can clear up for you?

      • Bay Area Guy

        *Yawn*

        When you can do better than foolish ad hominems/name calling, then we can talk.

        You claim my impression of multiculturalism re: Europe is ignorant. The around 20% of French voters who support Le Pen would respectfully disagree.

        • acorn

          In his writings Breivik states that he wants to see European policies on multiculturalism and immigration more similar to those of Japan and South Korea,[141] which he said are “not far from cultural conservatism and nationalism at its best”.[142] He expressed his admiration for the “monoculturalism” of Japan and for the two nations’ refusal to accept refugees.[143][144]

          say, you live in Bay Area?

          • Brett Sanbon

            I read about those comments. Hes a twisted soul. Worst thing is he truly believes he did no wrong.

          • Bay Area Guy

            say, you live in Bay Area?

            I do indeed.

            However, that should have no bearing on this argument. I can live in a multicultural environment and still be strongly critical of multiculturalism.

            Oh, and nice little logical fallacy there. Since Breivik doesn’t approve of European multiculturalism, then clearly, those who don’t approve of multiculturalism are all a bunch of potential mass murderers waiting to happen.

            The actions of Breivik, as despicable as they are, do not invalidate relevant critiques of multiculturalism anymore than the actions of a few Muslim suicide bombers mean that Islam as a whole is a terrorist religion.

          • acorn

            Not at all, I was merely drawing a parallel there, nothing further.

            Nor was I suggesting that those who strong agree with Breivik are mass-murderers waiting to happen. Theoretically I can agree with Nazism, Satanism or Buddhism and not actually practice it in real life. I certainly value all opinions and do not wish to rob you of your freedom to do so.

            Nonetheless I can follow that you and Breivik share the common view on multiculturalism, no? You clearly disagree with his action, but if we are strictly talking about Breivik’s idea on multiculturalism (even though he actually allowed for 2% multicultural mixture), you and Breivik agree on the point of multiculturalism?

          • Bay Area Guy

            @ Acorn

            Okay, fair enough.

            I do agree with his fundamental views on multiculturalism. But, it goes without saying, I absolutely do not condone his actions.

        • acorn

          @ Bay Area Guy

          Good, thank you – I do not wish to waste your time by talking past each other but be very clear and not call each racist and so forth by mutual misunderstanding. To be honest, I am quite interested in your view, which I very much wish to learn about.

          Now, having expressed your rejection of multiculturalism, I have two questions, about which I would appreciate hearing your opinion.

          1) Who exactly are these non-Koreans? How do you define them? Let’s make it easy -> North-Koreans = Korean? Korean-Chinese = Korean? Korean-American = Korean?

          2) What do you say Korea do with these non-Koreans in country?

          Barring extreme measures such as shooting people (clearly very barbaric), what should the Korean state do? I do believe these non-Koreans should not be physically harmed for just being in Korea, as you do too. So deport non-Koreans back home? Detain them and intern them somewhere?

          • Bay Area Guy

            For both Brett and Acorn, my proposed solutions for the problems of multiculturalism are as follows, and what I would propose for Korea I would propose for any country in the world in this regard.

            For starters, I think that illegal immigrants should be deported, without all the handwringing from the left about how their “human rights” (as if immigration is somehow a “right”) are being violated. Nothing radical about deporting illegal immigrants.

            Likewise, immigrants who are shiftless, criminal, or are an overall drain on society (I’m looking at you, Somalis in Minnesota), should be shown the door. As has been emphasized on this blog before, immigration should be for the benefit of the nation, not the immigrants themselves.

            In order to alleviate labor shortages, guest workers (emphasis on the “guest” part) can be brought in to perform labor. They work, receive a salary, pay taxes, and then go home. Kids they give birth to will not receive automatic citizenship (thus precluding the “anchor baby” phenomenon), and thus they will not pose a demographic threat in the future, which means less racial tension and identity politics. Basically, what I propose is what should have happened in Germany with regard to the Turkish guest workers, but obviously, the Turks stayed, and now Germany has various problems because of it.

            For immigrants and minorities, there must be an emphasis on assimilation and the embrace of the majority culture. No identity politics, no aggressive racial/ethnic lobbies, etc. In other words, a melting pot, not a tossed salad. Basically, this kind of crap will not be tolerated in any way, shape or form.

            Anything extreme about what I propose?

          • Justin Credible

            I have already pointed out the problem America has policing its borders, keeping gangs in check, enforcing immigration laws. Do you think Americans are against en mass immigration for no reason? Was immigration this big of an issue in 1805? No, because America circa 1805 experienced few of the problems presented by immigration today. You are too quick to write off perfectly rational reasons many anti en masse immigration proponents hold as being racist or radical. After all these radicals and racist can level the charge equally in force to the other side – radical and racist for subverting Americans for foreigners.

            What is even more telling is that you yourself admit the failures of Americas immigration policies. But what multiculturalists in Korea are pursuing so earnestly are just these very same failed policies. So its easy to see why some Koreans might be worried for the future of their country.

            The restriction of immigration is one part of the solution. Korean monoculture should be promoted, which means the absolute assimilation of foreigners who end up in Korea.

    • Ami

      Oh God how can you be American spouting this shit? But I guess history shows minorities and multicultralism really should be quelled: remembered what happened to Indians after the colonists arrived!

    • Anonton

      Wait a minute. Countries which aren’t ethnically diverse may have less racial riots and tensions, but the people there are much much much much much more racist and xenophobic than those living in multicultural countries. As a generalisation of course.

    • London Grrrl

      Excuse me but do you know what you are talking about?

      “It doesn’t have various racial/ethnic ghettos, underachieving 2nd generation immigrants (like Hispanics in the U.S. or Pakistanis in Britain)”

      As a British person living in London I find it ridiculous you would consider Pakistanis as part of the ‘underachieving 2nd generation’ most Pakistani 2nd generation come from very strict family backgrounds similar to the oriental Asians in America and perform in most cases better than their white English counterparts. Especially in a working class environment native white English are the majority of underachievers. You would find most Pakistanis in our National Health Service serving as doctors or owning businesses.

      The West has opened its borders to the point where white Westerners are projected to eventually become minorities in many Western countries.

      Now again this is confusing in the case of Britain. You talk specifically about ‘white’ westerners who are becoming minorities but in Britain we have a growing number of immigrants who are ‘white’ westerners from other European countries. Now please tell me how a WHITE western country opening it’s borders to WHITE westerners are going to cause the WHITE westerners to become a minority?

      Also I freaking despise white americans pulling the race card about how ethnic minorities are ruining their country blah blah. That was not your land first, you kicked the Indians out and also the Hispanics (parts southern USA was a part of Mexico/South America). Who cares if white people become a minority in the USA it will be back to the way it was before.

      Also most people with neo-nazi ideas in Britain are most likely uneducated white native English working class sucking up the countries resources on welfare benefits and the dole.

      This is not a simple case of all the coloured people are taking over the white people’s lands and all the coloured people are also underachievers.
      So please unless you have extensive knowledge of anywhere else a part from the Bay Area keep your ridiculous assumptions to yourself!

    • Tippy Long Stocking

      “When Korea and similarly homogenous societies used to be, well, homogenous, they didn’t have race/ethnic problems. However, now that Korea is become more “diverse,” there has been a xenophobic backlash, which almost always accompanies such demographic changes.”
      —————————–

      In America there are no true natives, except the native americans who made the mistake of ruining their homogeous native society, allowing the people who are now modern day westerners to live on the land. These people used genocide to wipe the native americans out almost to the point of extinction. I don’t think white westerners are in danger of that.

      America’s constitution defines itself as a “melting pot”, and was created to allow prosperous people of all nations to live there. America was never meant to be an “homogenous” society. Though I believe we should reduce the number of immigrants (white, black, other) from coming here.

      History will show you that even without racial/ethnic problems there will be religious problems. From there, cultural problems until anyone who walks otu of stamped will be completely stamped out. There’s no such thing as a harmonious homogenous society, only fascism.

  • Jack

    I agree with Bay Area Guy…The whole game of multiculturalism is low labor cost so that corporations can profit more..there is nothing for immigrants as well as locals in this…

    However, it cannot override the basic violent nature of human beings..Koreans killed so many innocent people in US, so they don’t have any right to speak out..Chinese makes fight with everyone..Japanese do the same in the bygone era..US puts its nose all over the world and kills as many young babies as possible and calls it collateral damage.

    The problem is human nature, thats why spirituality was born to change our nature…The earth is a school for all of us to learn and move on to higher dimensions in space…

    • Chucky3176

      Here’s another Joseonjok killing that happened on the same day, all these high profile three crime cases happened within the last week to week and a half.

      http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2012042439258

      Just before those two murder cases and the stabbing case that followed, this teen who was working in the convenience store at night was attacked by a hammer wielding Joseonjok. The sick bastard especially targeted young girls working their part time jobs, robbing them and raping them.

      http://www.lawissue.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=10816

      The majority of the crimes committed by foreigners in Korea are actually done by people with Chinese nationality (which includes both Han and ethnic Korean)
      Further, their violent crime rate is much higher than the national average rate of the native South Koreans, by 3.5 times.

      http://ecache.ilbe.com/files/attach/images/377678/794/829/058/68a13eb7904a7270946e4e3ff31be922.jpg

      http://ecache.ilbe.com/files/attach/images/377678/794/829/058/c6c0cce01a76cbdcc2b1753b10b39712.jpg

      http://www.ilbe.com/files/attach/images/377678/794/829/058/c5364a4e1764ca5c798f4bdf27b09cf1.jpg

      Just by looking at the statistic where crimes are reported, South Korea is not just importing more labor, they’re also importing more violent crimes. And I’m talking about the crimes that we know of, since the vast majority of crimes committed in foreign communities go unreported. OK, I understand we need more people to make the country diverse, and to promote the beauty of multiculturalism. But can we also admit that by importing more people from countries where crimes are much more prevailent and less safe than South Korea, we have a side effect of increased numbers of crime, and South Korea is becoming increasingly dangerous?

      • Paulie Walnuts

        “By importing more people from countries where crimes are much more prevailent and less safe than South Korea, we have a side effect of increased numbers of crime, and South Korea is becoming

        increasingly dangerous?”

        The multiculturalist responds to this charge in 2 ways – and we have already seen both responses on Koreabang already.

        The first reply is, “The crime rates of foreigners in Korea is on par to the crime rate of Koreans themselves!”

        The second reply is, “These multiculturalism-induced crimes are worth the X, X, or X benefits multiculturalism brings!

        The first position is fallacious. First, it compares MERELY the comparative RATES of crimes committed by foreigners vs. Koreans. This obviously ignores the fact that the ACTUAL number of crimes

        committed can be extremely high, but the rate remain low, for the rate itself is lowered by a respective increase in the total population of foreigners. That’s basic statistics. Second, this position

        ASSUMES that the rate itself will remain constant, which is not true. Korea is currently 99% Korean. As the percentage of Koreans in Korea becomes lower and lower – and thus approaches the demographic
        percentages of multicultural nations like America – the actual rate itself will go up.

    • Jack

      This is confusing… Am I not the only “Jack” on KoreaBANG?

  • Matt

    I always can’t help but laugh whenever I see someone on the Internet ranting against the dangers of “multiculturalism”, and how it inevitably causes society to spiral down into a hellhole.

    Let me tell you something.

    I live in what’s probably one of the most multicultural cities in the US.

    It’s called Irvine, located in Southern California. Look it up on Wikipedia.

    Within five minutes’ driving distance of my house are dozens upon dozens of Korean, Chinese, Taiwanese, and Japanese restaurants, and a smattering of Thai, Vietnamese, Persian, and Indian restaurants. There are no less than 3 Korean supermarkets, 2 Chinese supermarkets, 1 Japanese supermarket, and 1 Persian supermarket within ten minutes’ driving distance from my house.

    My city houses one of the largest Buddhist monasteries and Buddhist temples in the United States, named Pao Fa Temple, and it attracts both Chinese and Vietnamese.

    It also houses the Islamic Center of Irvine, where an estimated 5,000 worshipers attend their weekly programs.

    It also houses at least one synagogue and dozens upon dozens of churches, some of them Korean.

    My best friends as a child were Persian and Cantonese. My best friends in middle school and high school were Indian (two or three), Persian (two), Pakistani (my first ever serious love—she was a stunner), white, Afghan, and Chinese, and we all also regularly hung out with a Bangladeshi, a white South African, an Arab, an Anglo Mexican, a Taiwanese, and so many more.

    In university (University of California, Santa Barbara), three or four hours north of my home city, my first group of roommates were Mexican, Polish-Vietnamese, and Jewish, and my next roommates were Jordanian and white. Meanwhile, my best friends were Korean (two) and Japanese (two or three), and the friends I hung out with through my Jordanian roommate were Nigerian, Eritrean, Somali, and white. Some of my neighbors that I hung out with, meanwhile, were Burmese-English and black.

    After graduating, I now work in an administrative medical office in Costa Mesa, where my boss and the primary doctor are both Persian, three of my coworkers are Mexican (one Jewish), and two are Vietnamese.

    Throughout all of this, starting about six years ago, my family has been hosting international students in our home (for the rent), and we’ve had dozens of students each from South Korea and Japan, as well as a handful from China, Hong Kong, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Brazil, Poland, Vietnam, Taiwan, Russia, Spain, and Thailand.

    From all of this, you’re probably imagining my life has been hell, and my city must be a hellhole. After all, it’s hard to imagine a more multicultural experience than this.

    So, how does the truth stack up?

    In 2008, Irvine was chosen by CNN Money as the 4th best place to live in the United States.

    In September 2011, Businessweek listed Irvine as the 5th best city in the United States.

    In June 2010, the Federal Bureau of Investigation reported that Irvine had the lowest violent crime rate among cities in the United States with populations of more than 100,000.

    So my city is simultaneously one of the safest AND most multicultural cities in the United States. At a population of about a quarter of a million people, it is PROOF that multiculturalism does NOT inevitably lead to crime or social tension or racial hostilities. It has been absolutely thriving throughout the entire “recession”, and it has a booming population growth (48.4% over the past ten years). It is famous for its excellent public schools (the city was planned around University of California, Irvine), and it has spawned many high achievers, including Olympic athletes, actors and actresses, musicians, and Rebecca Black (sorry about that).

    So this is why I always laugh when I see Internet nationalists ranting against the perils and horrors caused by “multiculturalism”. It’s not multiculturalism. There are certainly problems in the world that need to be addressed, but the root problem isn’t the mere CONCEPT of aggregating people from different cultures into a single society. Pointing your finger at the most obvious aesthetic quality of a society is intellectual laziness, not well-reasoned, courageous, anti-PC rebellion.

    Cheers.

    • Justin Credible

      Oh the irony. You do know that last year, a chik fil a clerk wrote Ching and Chong on two Asian customers receipts, right? Guess where this happened? IRVINE! DING DING DING! So much for your example. Or that California itself was home to the 92 LA race riots where Koreans and KAs bore the brunt of the attack, along with the notorious LAPD? You cite one example of city that is not even a perfect example of multiculturalism as proof it works. For every such example you provide, I could provide plenty more. So no, dont go parading around like it is anything but a failed policy.

      • Matt

        Oh boy, you managed to find one racist in a city of a quarter of a million people.

        It’s like playing “Where’s Waldo?”, and once you find Waldo, you assume that everyone in the crowd must therefore also be Waldo. *facepalm*

        We’re talking about thriving societies—not the personal beliefs of an adolescent loser behind the cash register at a fast food joint.

        And for your second example, you literally tread back twenty (20!!!) years. Wow! And you thought that would be a zinger??

        Besides, my example was Irvine—not California. My point was that the existence of a thriving multicultural city proves that multiculturalism in itself is not the cause of social problems in regions that incidentally happen to be “multicultural”, as there are hundreds of other factors that aren’t so neatly packaged into a single politically-convenient epithet for the salivating knee-jerk reactions of the populist anti-PC reactionaries.

        • Justin Credible

          So you acknowledge the existence of racial/ethnic/tribal tension even in an exemplary multicultural city like Irvine. Great.

          So you also ackowledge that it’s possible for such conflict to exist in even the most multicultural nation in existence today. Good.

          But every example I can provide against multiculturalism should be written off. Why? Simply because 51% of America does not experience such conflict? So as long as a minority of people don’t harbor such views we can say multiculturalism has worked. Hilarious. Or because historical examples are irrelevant? Because the Koreans who came to America but were confronted with the bitter reality of multiculturalism aren’t still alive today and feeling the wounds? Or because when we make predictions about the future we should simply ignore the past? No, the failures are more apparent than ever. Unreported ethnic conflict occurs on a daily basis and even prominent politicians in multicultural countries proclaim its failure. Don’t take my word for it, look at the things Marion Barry has to say about dirty Asians.

          • Brett Sanbon

            Im gonna go back to a point Ive held from the beginning. It is not the fault of multiculturalism. Rather, humanity. That is why we cannot compare inter vs inra- tribal (i just threw up a little in my mouth) affairs.

          • Matt

            “So you acknowledge the existence of racial/ethnic/tribal tension even in an exemplary multicultural city like Irvine. Great.”

            So the beliefs of a single minimum wage cashier can be extrapolated to an entire city? Well, then. I can guarantee you that there’s as least one pedophile in this country. Extrapolating, we can clearly see that the entire United States is plagued by pedophilia. And hey, if one country is plagued by pedophilia, then why not extrapolate it to the whole world? And damn, my physics teacher in high school was left-handed. Clearly that means the entire world is left-handed!

            I’m not sure what a 76-year-old crackhead from Mississippi has to do with anything. Do his views represent yours? No? Well then why would you think they represent everyone else’s?

          • Justin Credible

            The FBI, the premier organization of crime investigation in the U.S. states that Globalization, multiculturalism, and immigration will result in gang, and thus, crime exapnsion.

            Do you think they pulled this conclusion out of thin air? You are ignoring a hefty amount of historical and current evidence of how it doesn’t work. It isn’t just Barry saying these things, friend. Hoekstra had an anti-Chinese ad “Debbiespenditall”, Pat Buchanan has clearly stated that America’s essence is white European, John McCain has said “I hate the gooks”, and George Allen called an American born person a macaca…the list goes on. If politicians themselves, representatives of the peopel, can say these things in public, what do you think regular people are saying – and doing?

            You are simply minimizing the extent to which multiculturalism has failed. I don’t think I need to actually list the many examples – historical and current – for it to be clear that if this is what its like in the most multicultural country in the world, it will be downright ugly in a country like Korea where 99% of the poeple are Korean.

          • Matt

            The FBI? You mean the same organization that, as I mentioned earlier, reported my multicultural city to have the lowest violent crime rate among large cities (population over 100,000) in the United States?

            Name-dropping a bunch of baby boomer (and older) racists is absolutely meaningless. I’m already well aware that there are racists in the world. That’s not what we’re discussing. These racists would still exist in homogenous societies. The point is that the rest of society can still thrive otherwise, despite the presence of a few ignorant hicks.

            Irvine’s overall success isn’t debilitated by that Chick-fil-A cashier, nor my leftist Persian friend who likes taking cracks at Jews, nor my Chinese mother who’s utterly terrified of most black men (and hates most black women). Multiculturalism doesn’t require a utopia of enlightened Kumbaya-singing pacifists. It’s just a different type of environment in which the same rules of everyday life apply.

          • Justin Credible

            Sure, multiculturalism can leave certain cities relatively free of racial conflict, yet leave others in a complete state of racial disarray, but as long as the “overall” – this could mean up to 49% according to your definition – population doesn’t experience it multiculturalism should be considered a success. Even more, we should impose this definition of multicultural success on all nations! It’s ironic how your defintion of success can include blatantly discrimatory policies like affirmative action – URMS at the expense of Asians – and drug laws, which disproportionately targets blacks. But these are just a few examples.

            Just because 51 or more of America doesn’t experience it doesn’t mean its not a failure. Imagine selling multiculturalism to Koreans by saying “Sure, there might be a perpetual underclass, race riots here and there, and examples of discrimination everywhere, but you should just accept it!”

            Multiculturalists ultimately promote diversity simply for the sake of diversity. This is wrong. It’s interesting that this low standard for success is good reason for Korea to embrace multiculturalism when it has managed just fine thus far without it.

          • Matt

            Affirmative action and discriminatory law enforcement? What the f*ck does that have to do with ANYTHING I said? And I have no clue what you’re going on about with your “49% vs 51%” rambling.

            You seem to be using my comments as merely a podium for spouting random political beliefs you’ve formed over the years. Why not just talk to a mirror? It saves me time.

            “Imagine selling multiculturalism to Koreans by saying “Sure, there might be a perpetual underclass, race riots here and there, and examples of discrimination everywhere, but you should just accept it!””

            I sure as hell don’t need to sell it to Korean-Americans, who earn far higher than the national average income and who haven’t seen a “race riot” in twenty years. Hell, the mayor of Irvine *IS* Korean (literally born and raised in Korea and immigrated after graduating from university).

            As for Koreans in Korea, if they don’t want people to enter their country, then perhaps they should immediately cease traveling to the Anglosphere by the HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS to study in our universities. Anything less would be sheer hypocrisy.

            Of course, I don’t *want* that to happen. I enjoy the Korean presence here where I live, and in fact there’s a friendly Korean international student sleeping about 20 feet away from me in his homestay bedroom. But if these xenophobes want to tighten the borders, then it’s only natural that this tightening applies to both incoming AND outgoing traffic.

          • Justin Credible

            You are a propenent of multiculturalism. You seem to be unaware of the connection that affirmative action has to multiculturalism. Odd. Affirmative action, in order words, is a manifestation of multiculturalism at the policy level. Ironic that it was started BECAUSE of discrimination, which is itself a corollary of multiculturalism. The very fact that it AA still exists today is an admission that multiculturalism has failed. After all, what use is there of AA if multiculturalism actually works? So, affirmative action is a policy of promoting certain ethnicities over others, namely URMS over whites and Asians, although it is Asians who suffer the most. But what is that but racial discrimination itself? You say, what the heck does AA have to do with multiculturalism? As you can see, it has everything to do with multiculturalism. Thus AA is another example – one of many – how multiculturalism is indeed a failure.

            Now, onto multiculturalism as it relates to drug laws in America. It is well known that U.S. drug laws disproportionately affects blacks. Why is this the case? Because blacks are arrested at much higher rates than whites. There are many people who consider this institutionalized racism as it is part of the American judicial system. But you say, “No! Multiculturalism works in America!” Yet U.S law and law enforcement themselves contradict your claim that multiculturism is successful in the U.S. So they do have everything to do with multiculturalism.

            You also say multiculturalism should be considered a success as long as it is a success overall. That means, in general or for the most part, it works. So 51% percent of America may not experience conflict and it would still be a success according to your definition of success. In other words, 49% or a significant amount of conflict can still be present for multiculturalism to be cobsidered a success. Call me crazy, but I don’t consider that success at all.

            Why are you simply pointing out KAs national average income as the only measure of success. Does that mean they don’t experience racial discrimination in virtue of living among other groups? Does that mean there is no glass ceiling for Asian? Does that mean Asian students aren’t much more likely to be rejected from elite colleges? In fact Asians need to score 450 more points than blacks for an equal chance of admission. Higher than average income does not mean multiculturalism is a success. In fact, it seems far from it.

            As for the race riots, I’m sure racial tensions had nothing to do with them. Could you say this to those victims if it were 1992 today? Guess what? The same people who participated in those race riots are still alive and well today. Lastly, race riots arent the only indicator of racial tension, but you seem to be conveniently ignoring this fact. Just because the mayor of Irvine is Asian or even the president himself is half black doesn’t mean racial tensions arent alive and well today. Assuming Korea continues to pursue mukticulturalism and experiences its first race riots – which it inevitably will – it will look back at the 92 race riots but by then it will be too late. The backlash wont be too pretty either, I can guarantee it.

            I fully understand why you think Korea should tighten outgoing traffic if it also tightens incoming traffic. But outgoing traffic probably benefits it a lot more so I’m sure theyll try to have their cake and it it too. But yes, I agree, it would be a little hypocritical of them.

          • Matt

            I needn’t say anything more than that it is 100% completely possible to support multiculturalism and oppose affirmative action. I myself am proof of this. You can’t tell me I don’t believe what I believe.

            And historically speaking, the US was multicultural from its very origins. Funny, I don’t recall the Pennsylvania Dutch receiving affirmative action in the 17th century. And I’ve never received affirmative action, despite me being a minority. Nor have other Asians, as you’ve so generously (thanks!) decided to point out. Looks like it ain’t so inevitable after all!

            Oh, and that “51% v 49%” thing also applies to democracy. I take it you are anti-democracy? Yes?

          • Bay Area Guy

            @ Justin Credible

            Multiculturalists ultimately promote diversity simply for the sake of diversity. This is wrong.

            Exactly.

            I actually have occasionally debated pro-open borders/multicultural types in real life, and whenever I press them to list the tangible benefits of diversity, they almost always trot out the same argument that “it gives us new perspectives” or it’s “enriching.” When I proceed to ask them what those “new perspectives” are, and how exactly they’re “enriching,” they always seem incapable of providing a sufficient answer.

            If someone could actually point to tangible benefits of diversity, as opposed to merely pursuing diversity for the sake of diversity, then I’m all ears.

            But I’m not holding my breath.

          • Matt

            “If someone could actually point to tangible benefits of diversity, as opposed to merely pursuing diversity for the sake of diversity, then I’m all ears.”

            I support it because I enjoy it. More specifically, it makes life a richer and more stimulating experience. Your assumption is that monoculture in inherently the ideal, and that the addition of additional cultures dilutes the ideal.

            I would liken this to the following analogies:

            – Rock music is already great. So why not get rid of country, jazz, R&B, pop, hip hop, electronica, folk, classical music, and anything else? After all, if you enjoy rock music, the presence of all these other excess genres merely dilutes my listening experience!

            – Let’s say the Big Mac is McDonald’s best burger. If this is true, then why would McDonald’s offer any other food? The Big Mac is what made McDonald’s what it is, and the offering of other menu selections merely dilutes the iconic nature of McDonald’s!

            Your assumption is that the presence of foreign cultures comes at the expense of American citizens. As a born-and-raised American, I can say that my life would be significantly worse off if this country were to be stripped of everything but its Anglo-American components. In fact, since I’m half Chinese and half Jewish—and ergo an ethnic minority—this would probably mean I’d be eliminated from the country as well. As crazy as this sounds, I wouldn’t really appreciate that…

          • acorn

            If you don’t like diversity and wish to be with either “same-blood” or “same-culture-religion”?

            Thankfully we have a wonderful social experiment still underway called “North Korea”. 50 years of nothing but pure Koreanness!

            Many people went there to try it out; I hear they like it there a lot. Never think about leaving it, from what I can tell :p

        • linette

          Matt
          Why do you waste your energy fighting and discussing with the Koreans? Just post their true behavior on discussion forums on the internet for the world to see.

          I came to korea bang to get information so I can copy and paste the articles like “Anti Chinese-Korean Sentiment on Rise in Wake of Fresh Attack” and all the defaming racist remarks made by the South Koreans and the Koreans on this website about Chinese. I need articles so I can translate into Chinese and post them on China internet for the Chinese from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore to see. A lot of young Chinese don’t understand the South Korean culture and we need to educate them.

          I just couldn’t help myself but I drop down few links to expose the South Koreans and their behaviors. Those are just facts about the south Koreans. I didn’t write the articles.

          • linette

            Lastly and the most important. Tell the South Koreans to take good care of the North Korean refugees. China is sick of paying billions of dollars each year feeding your North Korean family. When will the South Koreans take responsibility and feed your own people? Why is that you think it’s okay to keep taking from the China Chinese getting free aid? Have you no shame? Those are your family. Transport all North refugees like 500,000 back to your country and feed them, treat them nice and not as second class citizens. Transport all Joseonjok from China back to South Korea and treat them nice. They are Koreans and not Chinese. Stop using Chinese as an excuse so you don’t have to provide for them and mistreat them.
            If South Koreans still have an ounce of dignity repay China the billions of dollars spend providing for these North Koreans refugees.

    • Bay Area Guy

      @ Matt

      When liberals in the U.S. speak of “multiculturalism” and “diversity,” they’re usually referring to blacks and Hispanics.

      As someone quite familiar with Irvine, I can tell you firsthand that there is a significant dearth of blacks and Hispanics in that city, and they account for most of this country’s “diversity.”

      So that alone might explain the unique success of Irvine’s multiculturalism.

      Of course, when you create a city as wealthy, planned, and exclusive as Irvine is (again, take note of how few Hispanics there are in Irvine, which is remarkable considering it’s in Southern California), then inevitably you’re going to enjoy results. Not to mention that many of the Asian immigrants in Irvine (predominately Chinese and Korean) are highly selected, and tend to come as economic migrants/professionals.

      However, for every multiculturalism success story such as Irvine that people like you point to, I respond with Oakland, LA, Miami, Washington DC, Chicago, etc.

      Not to mention that Asians in general (with the exception of specific Southeast Asian groups like the Cambodians and Hmong) tend to perform very well, be law abiding, assimilate well, etc, regardless of where they live.

      When people speak out against multiculturalism, they’re not railing against successful Asians or highly selected economic migrants. They’re talking about low achieving, uneducated, third world immigrants. We’re talking Pakistanis in Britain, Mexicans in the U.S, Somalis in Sweden, Algerians in France, etc.

      And considering that most educated, highly skilled immigrants prefer destinations such as the U.S. and other English speaking countries to places such as Korea, most of the immigration Korea will receive will be 3rd world.

      Are you telling me you want to replicate the situation you have with various 3rd world immigrants in Europe?

      • Matt

        So the problem isn’t multiculturalism—it’s blacks, Hispanics, and low-achieving, uneducated, third world immigrants.

        If you hate political correctness (and you rally against multiculturalism, so I assume you do), then why not just say it like it is? Keep out the blacks, Hispanics, and low-achieving, uneducated, third world immigrants. Don’t lump a Swedish expatriate in Hong Kong with a Pakistani cabbie in London.

        Rallying against multiculturalism necessarily implies rallying against international cross-border movement. As an American who highly wishes to travel the globe and eventually settle down somewhere abroad, I highly resent folks like you condemning me to a lifetime imprisonment in a society that bores me and is full of people that I don’t particularly like.

        • Bay Area Guy

          So the problem isn’t multiculturalism—it’s blacks, Hispanics, and low-achieving, uneducated, third world immigrants.

          If you hate political correctness (and you rally against multiculturalism, so I assume you do), then why not just say it like it is? Keep out the blacks, Hispanics, and low-achieving, uneducated, third world immigrants.

          Unfortunately, most of multiculturalism DOES involve the groups mentioned above, not educated Swedish and Japanese immigrants.

          Rallying against multiculturalism necessarily implies rallying against international cross-border movement. As an American who highly wishes to travel the globe and eventually settle down somewhere abroad, I highly resent folks like you condemning me to a lifetime imprisonment in a society that bores me and is full of people that I don’t particularly like.

          Go wherever the hell you please. Just be sure to fit in and respect the locals and their ways.

          And I am not against international cross-border movement. As a past tourist, I can say this with a straight face.

          What I AM against is the importation of large numbers of radically different groups. I have no problem with the occasional educated expat wanting to move somewhere else, or spend time living in different countries, but the importation of entire populations, if not regulated properly (ie. like in Irvine), results in disaster, as the French and British of the last decade can attest to.

          An example I like to use to illustrate selective/regulated versus unregulated 3rd world immigration is the country India. Casual observers in the U.S. will notice that Indian immigrants and Indian Americans are wildly successful, and are highly overrepresented at top universities, the STEM professions, etc.

          And yet India itself is an abjectly impoverished, open sewer shithole, with over 1/3 of its population illiterate, an even higher percentage is malnourished, many backward social norms, etc.

          So why then, are Indian Americans so incredibly clean, law abiding, and wildly successful?

          In addition to having a better work ethic than those who are American born, it has to do with the fact that they are highly selected. They call it the “brain drain” for a reason.

          However, just imagine if the U.S. and other countries were to just let a massive, random sampling of India’s general population enter their countries. I can tell you with certainty that the portrait of Indian Americans would be less pretty.

          Multiculturalism can only work if it’s highly regulated, and to a degree, exclusive. Free-for-all open borders and an anything-goes tolerance will not end well, and has already proven to be problematic.

          • Justin Credible

            Agreed on most points. The problem with Korea’s approach to both multiculturalism and immigration is that many elements in Korea are actively trying to fling the doors wide open and promote multiculturalism at the expense of Korean monoculture. This is just plain wrong. For all intents and purposes multiculturalism and monoculture are mutually exclusive.

          • Matt

            In other words, multiculturalism can work. It just doesn’t work in all its variations.

            Democracy, too, can work. But it doesn’t work in all its variations (see: South Asia and most of Africa). So why does no one rally against democracy? Because people have enough sense to realize that just because these dysfunctional countries are dysfunctional in part due to the consequences of their democratic structures, the solution isn’t to cast off ALL forms of democracy as doomed to failure.

            The problem is that some cultures are just pin-brained. They’re pin-brained abroad, and they’re pin-brained at home in their own “monocultural” countries of origin. The problem isn’t people of different cultures living with each other. The problem is these pin-brained cultures. These pin-brained cultures also manage to create disasters out of democracy. But surely you’re not going to rally against the liberal “democratists”?

          • Matt

            “The problem with Korea’s approach to both multiculturalism and immigration is that many elements in Korea are actively trying to fling the doors wide open and promote multiculturalism at the expense of Korean monoculture. This is just plain wrong. For all intents and purposes multiculturalism and monoculture are mutually exclusive.”

            And yet there are seven million Korean diaspora doing precisely that worldwide…

          • Bay Area Guy

            @ Matt

            You know what Matt, even though I’ve disagreed with you earlier, I think you raise a very fair point.

            If “multiculturalism” solely involved educated Asians, Swedes, and other successful groups, then it wouldn’t be seen as the big problem that it often is.

            (aside from fears from some white parents that their schools are becoming too “competitive” on account of a heavily Asian student body)

            Unfortunately, multiculturalism, in most of its variations, is indeed a failure.

            As I said before, if properly regulated, and involving the presence of specific agreeable groups (ie. Northeast Asians), then it can work well. Cities like San Francisco, Irvine, Alameda, San Mateo, etc, with their predominantly white and Asian populations, have shown that they can thrive.

            However, you cannot judge multiculturalism by how well a small, mostly selected minority performs. You have to look at it in terms of how the largest minority groups are integrated within their respective societies.

            Saying that multiculturalism can work because of heavily East Asian cities such as Irvine is like saying that multiculturalism in London is successful because of the success of its small Chinese population. That doesn’t negate the fact that presence of the main minority group in Britain (ie. Pakistanis) has been mostly negative.

          • Matt

            @ Bay Area Guy

            So I’m discussing multiculturalism as a concept, and you’re discussing it as a phenomenon.

            That, alone, is our cause for discrepancy.

          • Matt

            @ Bay Area Guy

            More specifically, I’m supporting it as a concept, and you’re opposing it as a phenomenon.

            I think it’s safe to say we agree on all the neutral “facts”.

            Just out of curiosity, may I inquire your background?

          • Bay Area Guy

            @ Matt

            Multiculturalism, as a concept, if applied within certain limits, can be successful.

            However, more often than not, when put into practice, multiculturalism results in tension, segregation, extra competition, and overall polarization. Even in ultra progressive cities such as San Francisco and Oakland, when liberals (well, really, white liberals) speak about the benefits of “diversity” and “multiculturalism,” they usually mean one thing: Good “ethnic” food.

            (as pointed out by Christian Lander in his hilarious Stuff White People Like)

            Hang around these white (and Asian) liberals enough, and you’ll notice an absence of “diversity” (ie. blacks and Hispanics) within their social circles. So yes, even in liberal, multicultural capitals, you continue to witness segregation and division.

            So yes, if regulated properly, and if exclusive to a certain extent, multiculturalism can work. As I’ve said before, cities with predominantly white and Asian populations have shown this.

            Unfortunately, that’s not often the case, both domestically and globally.

            So yes, Matt, I think we actually do agree on neutral facts.

            If you’re wondering about my background, I’m a white American from the San Francisco Bay Area. Even though I myself live a multicultural life on an individual level (on account of circumstance and necessity), I am still critical of multiculturalism on a national/group level.

            To be clear, I have absolutely no problem with individuals having friends of different races, dating/marrying people of different races, living wherever they want, etc.

            I just think that on a national level, excessive multiculturalism/diversity does indeed create problems. Can anyone really deny that?

            I distinguish between life on an individual level, and life on a more societal/national level.

            Does that clarify anything?

          • Bay Area Guy

            Since this blog is about Korea, I propose that Korea accept talented international students, continue to embrace ideas (because to me, that’s the most important kind of “diversity”) from other countries, etc.

            But I think it would be absolutely foolish to import entire 3rd world populations to to Korea. Do not do that unless you want to create a large, underachieving underclass, and potential demographic threat.

            The results of such foolishness speak for themselves in Europe.

          • Matt

            The national level is merely the aggregate of all the sub-divisional individual levels.

            How else could a national movement against multiculturalism work without specifically targeting individuals?

          • Matt

            Moreover, I’m perplexed at how you could openly acknowledge you’re enjoying multiculturalism on the individual level while simultaneously scorning what is merely the national aggregate of that.

            Kind of reminds me of that Korean American immigrant to South Korea who opposes immigration to Korea. *doh*

          • Bay Area Guy

            Moreover, I’m perplexed at how you could openly acknowledge you’re enjoying multiculturalism on the individual level while simultaneously scorning what is merely the national aggregate of that.

            It’s simple.

            Just like what I propose on a national level, my multicultural existence is likewise somewhat limited (ie. most of my non-white friends are Asian).

            Besides, for what it’s worth, I’ve observed from my own personal experience that non-whites are a lot less PC and self-righteous than your average white liberal.

          • Justin Credible

            Surely you’re not talking about me, as I was born in the states.

            Just curious though Matt. Your mom is Chinese and your dad is Jewish, right?

      • Justin Credible

        There are plenty of problems immigrants from non-third world countries bring to Korea as well, so Korea should, in fact, make no distinction between the two groups.

    • http://onethenatureofthings.net/forum Typhoon

      Indeed.

      Sounds like many Canadian cities: Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver.

      Some of the most multicultural cities on the planet.

      Vancouver is typically voted the 1st or 2nd most livable city on the planet.

      Toronto and Calgary typically one of the top five in the list.

      The highest ranking Asian city is Osaka, 12th, one of the most multicultural cities in Japan with it’s large ethnic Korean population.

      The highest ranking US city is Honolulu at 26th.

      • iill

        Liveable city rankings are meaningless for homogeneous nation.That ranking is a city livable for foreigners.not for native.
        osaka is multicultural cities???
        how about tokyo??tokyo has more foreigners and multicultural.but Tokyo is lower than the Osaka.

  • Sunshinefiasco

    It’s a good thing we’ve got reliable sources like Minji’s mom to figure out all this multiculturalism/race stuff for us.

  • Brett Sanbon

    Are people posting under different identities? If so I would like to say that it is dishonest and please stop.

    • Bruce Tutty

      Some people are too afraid to be their true selves, and need to lie and lurk to have their little opinions from the shadows.

      • James

        Does this mean to suggest your real name is Bruce Tutty?

        As far as I can see, people aren’t posting under multiple identities but I have once again removed comments from some people who are simply repeating the same points again or “flooding” the comments section.

        My two cents: multiculturalism works and its wonderful. I’m proud to be part of a society that embraces it.

        I have little time for people who decide the actions of one person somehow represent their entire social group. It’s not a particularly intelligent argument and seems to be based on little more than petty fear and prejudice.

  • Bruce Tutty

    there is no country in the world that can tell you where their poeple came from or what MIX of genes makes a particular race.

    You are all foreigners…get used to it.

  • Kai

    In many of the comments above, there’s an admirable amount of intelligence that is unfortunately compensating for an irrational but tightly-held belief couched fundamentally in intellectual laziness.

    What we have here are segregationists who are either unaware of the slippery slope they’re on, or disregarding it for their convenience.

    Yes, there are problems in society related to “racial/ethnic/tribal tension” and “identity politics”. Segregating the races, ethnicities, and tribes will likely alleviate these problems.

    …only to be replaced by other tensions and “identity politics” that, surprise, also concurrently exist and will exist forever so long as we define our world, and our place in the world, along the lines of what makes you different from me and me different from you. Thinking the removal of race will result in a reduction of total tension and social problems is like thinking you’d be finally satisfied if you were just a bit richer, taller, better looking. Short-sighted, intellectually lazy, if not intellectually dishonest. But understandably human enough.

    It goes without saying that there is an infinite number of things we can find different about each other. So long as difference and individuality exist as a state of mind, we will never escape “tensions” and “identity politics”. We’ll just learn or have more mind-share to discriminate along other lines, and then yearn for the better society we’d have if we could just be even more “homogeneous”.

    We can segregate ourselves to “improve” or “maintain” our own spheres of “purity” until we’re alone, “protecting” what we believe belongs to “us” vs. “them”. And then we get lonely, because we’re social creatures. Or someone else will eye what we have and enjoy and come compete for it. When they do, we choose how to coexist with them (including allowing them amongst us or segregating them apart from us), and the mode we choose has an infinite number of possible short-, medium-, or long-term ramifications, costs and benefits.

    Yes, multiculturalism can be social policy, but it is fundamentally the byproduct of competition for scarce resources.

    Toss in the fact that our environment is unpredictable and ever-evolving, we can never make a determination with any real certainty as to the sum total benefit vs. cost we’re fating ourselves with our choices. Past performance is no guarantee of future results.

    We, and most definitely the segregationists themselves, can only make a choice and employ the same fallacies to comfort ourselves in the wisdom of our choices.

    Korea would not be what it is today without other races and cultures. Neither would Japan. Neither China. That there are “other” races, ethnicities, cultures, tribes, what have you now competing for resources in Korea cannot be divorced from the fact that Korea now has resources worth their time and energy to compete for. It also can’t be divorced from the fact that there was a time when these people didn’t flock to Korea, because Korea and Korean society had nothing to offer them. Korea is “99%” Korean because it only recently became attractive enough for other nationalities, races, ethnicities, tribes to make the effort.

    The best way to maintain homogeneity is to have nothing worth competing for. But then you and your own won’t be sticking around either.

    • Justin Credible

      I agree that Korea would not be what it is today had it not been for other cultures. What did members of those other cultures bring to Korea that helped it develop to what it is today? New ideas.

      Now, I would like to ask you this question. Since any Canadian who happens to be fully Korean by blood contains all those ideas and benefits in virtue of him being a foreigner or immigrant, allowing in only those individuals, namely foreigners of Korean blood, would allow Korea to reap all the benefits of multiculturalism or globalization or immigration or whatever you want to call it WITHOUT the added problem of ethnic tension, would it not?

      • Kai

        Your question shows that you’re still not seeing the big picture. The “ethnic tension” (and any “tension” really) inevitably comes as the benefits of that multiculturalism, globalization, or immigration accrues in Korea (or any artificially defined space). Thinking you can head it off is the fatal logic error.

        • Justin Credible

          Okay. Now I say, the acceptance of only immigrants of Korean blood then at least preserves the genetic homogeneity of Koreans, does it not?

          • Brett Sanbon

            No. Many Koreans abroad are reproducing with non-Koreans.

          • Justin Credible

            I was referring to those only exclusively of Korean blood.

          • Kai

            You’re no longer addressing the issue in contention.

          • Justin Credible

            Ill take that as a yes. Superb. You yourself have admitted that regardless of whether is Korean by blood makes no difference wrt ethnic racial tension. However, it is possible to preserve the genetic homogeneity while experiencing the negative effects of multiculturalism. I argue that it is indeed better to limit immigration to Koreans, since either choice will necessarily result in ethnic-racial-tribal tension, Koreans should choose the one that AT LEAST preserves Korean genetic homogeneity. After all, they can still reap the benefits of multiculturalism by doing so.

          • Brett Sanbon

            If you mean within the physical boundaries of Korea, than yes, you would be correct. However, if Korea was a “closed” country again, how many people would want to leave?

            Not many other countries will do business with one that closes its boarders to everyone who is not of Korean blood. You will see mass emmigration of Koreans to other countries just to find work. This would lead to many more half-Korean babies. Already, about 10% of Koreans have emigrated to different countries. How many more would follow when Korea goes and does something silly like restricting imigration by blood purity?

          • Kai

            No, I didn’t admit anything. I don’t have to admit that only allowing immigrants of Korean blood preserves genetic homogeneity because I never said it doesn’t.

            What I did say is that you’re still not seeing the big picture with regards to why your desire for segregation will not result in a reduction of “tensions and identity politics”. You also mistakenly think you can have your cake and eat it too.

      • Matt

        “allowing in only those individuals, namely foreigners of Korean blood, would allow Korea to reap all the benefits of multiculturalism or globalization or immigration or whatever you want to call it WITHOUT the added problem of ethnic tension, would it not?”

        I can’t believe you actually have the balls to say this under an article that is literally ABOUT the so-called “multicultural tensions” caused BY ethnic Korean immigrants! Just incredible!

        If you want to oppose multiculturalism, then your target is multiCULTURALISM, not multiETHNICISM. Canadians have a different culture from Koreans. This is a FACT! Therefore, supporting the immigration of Korean Canadians to South Korea is PRO-multiculturalism! I’m sorry my friend, but you are a multiculturalist! And ya didn’t even know it!

        Glad I could help you discover this out! I’m so proud of you.

        • Justin Credible

          Superb. You and I both agree that multiculturalism can be achieved even with the preservation of a pureblooded Korea. No non-Koreans needed at all! Now this is something I can rally behind!

    • h3ll

      I really liked this post

  • http://www.flickr.com/adrianojapan adrianojapan

    “Outbursts of violence are not related to social groups.”

    Hypocrisy? In this century?

  • chucky3176

    I don’t care what race or background you are, if you want to live in a foreign country, then respect the laws of the land, and you’ll have no problems. As long as you are law abiding resident, I see no problems. There is simply no excuse for the guests to have a crime rate that’s 3.5 times the native hosts. But it’s cases like these, and the indiscriminate abuse of the porous immigration and naturalization system to take advantage of the system, which makes my blood boil.

    Citizenship obtaining process porous

    By Na Jeong-ju

    It’s seemingly easy for certain foreigners to obtain Korean citizenship. They need only two Korean “guarantors” who can help them cheat the ward office.

    Here is an example.

    A 64-year-old Korean-Chinese, surnamed Lee, entered the country on a tourist visa in 1997. He wanted to make money by renewing his visa, but his request was rejected. His visa expired but he decided to stay illegally.

    In 2001, Lee happened to find a legal loophole in Korea’s registration system for residents. Under the law, a person is able to report the birth or death of a certain person to ward office if he or she has only two guarantors who can testify.

    So he borrowed identification cards from two acquaintances and falsely reported that he was born in Korea in 1948. The ward office believed the documents. It registered him as a Korean and issued an ID card to prove that he was a citizen.

    That’s how he obtained Korean citizenship. Until the fraud was detected last year and he was evicted from the country, he was able to live as a Korean. Whenever he received treatment at hospitals, his bill was covered by medical insurance. He even received a monthly state subsidy given to poor households.

    The so-called guarantor registration system, which exists only in Korea among OECD countries, is being misused by an increasing number of foreigners who want to become Koreans, according to the Justice Ministry.

    “Insurance swindlers have often misused the system to extort somebody else’s insurance money. These days, we’ve detected more fraud cases involving foreigners, especially from China and Southeast Asian nations,” a ministry official said. “We are trying to revise the system because foreign criminals can take advantage of it.”

    The system was established during Japanese colonial rule (1910-1945) to ensure a quick registration of new-born babies or the deaths of people. The system doesn’t require certificates of birth and death issued by doctors.

    The Korean Journal of Legal Medicine, a group of forensic experts, has called for the government to abolish the system, saying it is vulnerable to insurance crimes.

    In February, police caught a group of South Koreans who helped illegally-staying Vietnamese women register their babies as Koreans. They fabricated birth certificates and acted as guarantors for the women to deceive public servants.

    Another Korean-Chinese man was able to live as a Korean for the past 19 years until he was caught early this month.

    He had already married in China, but wed a Korean woman after obtaining Korean citizenship through the guarantor system. He then married another Chinese woman in China, deceiving her into thinking he was a Korean national.

    Three children were born between him and the wives and they were all registered as Korean citizens, according to the ministry.

  • Ami

    Some of you seem to confuse being anti-multicultural with plain racism. There is a difference between saying someone should try to learn the official/de facto language of your country of residence and saying minority presence causes riots and crimes.

    With that mentality so popular on here I’m surprised there isn’t some radical study from 1884 quoted or some rant against miscegenation.

    I’m not pro open borders at all and I’m not a friend of illegal immigration either but to say that multiculturalism is completely detrimental to a society’s heath is ridiculous.

    • Ami

      Also, violent crimes tend to be a problem for the poor and uneducated. The uneducated and poor/low class serving as both victims and perpetrators. This goes regardless of race and nationality to become a problem of class.

      I’m sorry if this or the earlier post have mistakes or aren’t clear I’m tired lol

      • chucky3176

        I think you are right. The key here then is to import higher class, highly educated people. Unfortunately, for Korea’s case, in a drive to drive down the wages, the people who are charge of the country advocate importing cheap labor made out of mostly low educated population. The immigration is also rigged with favoring ethnic Koreans from China through a system that takes in anyone who can prove they or their ancestors have some ties to Korea. But this system is so f*cked up that anyone can forge the documents needed to prove they are really ethnically Korean.

  • Brett Sanbon

    Can’t wait to read about how even cows shouldn’t be allowed from multiculturalist nations; “for they are an infectious disease, stealing the identities and tastes of our pure cows”.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/25/health/california-mad-cow/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

    Even though I am American, I think Korean beef tastes better. Although it may just be that I have an ‘in’, and my butcher sends me a text the morning of slaughter.

  • Chucky3176

    South Korea is the only Asian nation that is experimenting with importing large numbers of immigrants with hopes of laying down a foundation for multiculturalism. About half the births in the rural areas are now by immigrant mothers. And despite all the hype about racism and how evil South Koreans are, South Korea is one of the few countries in the world where the doors of immigration are opening, instead of closing as in most countries. The country’s elites have embraced multiculturalism, and South Korea is the only Asian country that is massively experimenting with multiculturalism, going off to the uncharted territory.

    South Korea Abolishes Itself

    http://evoandproud.blogspot.ca/2011/09/south-korea-abolishes-itself.html

    • Justin Credible

      A noble experiment indeed. Sounds eerily like another noble, but failed experiment in existence today!

      Its funny how these multiculturalists assume immigration en masse is the only solution to Koreas demographic problems when just a few decades ago it was desperately seeking to curtail the birth rate. Dont provide provide financial incentives to Koreans to reproduce, give them to foreigners! Multiculturalism will save Korea! Yay!

      Also interesting is the connection between the US and other foreign elements and the propagation of the multiculturalist agenda in Korea. This is precisely what tribal/ethnic ideological warfare is and its being played out right before our very eyes. Its seductiveness is why multiculturalism is so dangerous. Before long, Korea as a people will have simply ceased to exist. Its also interesting to note the elites are listening to these so called Western educated Koreans when plenty – like me – are arguing otherwise.

      Time will ultimately tell who got it right. When Korea experiences its first race riots, sees the emergence of a perpetual underclass, and ethnic/tribal strife a reactionary movement will rise no doubt. This will consume much of Koreas dynamism and roil Koreas hitherto ethnic harmony. And just like multiculturalists do right now in the states, they will simply dismiss it and claim success at the expense of Koreans and the Korean ethos itself. A true tragedy in the making, it seems.

      • Chucky3176

        Officially, South Korea’s non Korean population stands at 2.8% of the population. But this blog points out the flaw in the Korean stats system that suggests the percentage of foreign population is much larger than it is. For instance, about half of the foreign population is illegal aliens who are not counted in the stats. So that alone, doubles the rate of foreign population.

        http://evoandproud.blogspot.ca/2012/04/reflections-on-revolution-in-south.html

        The author goes on to say:

        On the other hand, the official statistics greatly understate the impact of immigration in at least three ways. First, the term ‘foreigner’ doesn’t mean ‘foreign-born.’ It refers only to those residents who haven’t received South Korean citizenship yet. When a foreigner becomes a citizen, he or she disappears from the statistics and is deemed to be sociologically the same as any other Korean. No statistics are kept on ethnic origin.

        Second, the official statistics exclude Korean-born children of foreigners. This group is far from negligible, especially in the case of mail-order brides from southeast Asia and elsewhere:

        ______
        I might want to add, over 20,000 people per year naturalize to South Koreans, and that number is doubling every 2 years, with over 100,000 cases of applications that are backlogged due to immigration system unable to keep up. South Korea is well on its way to American style open immigration system, and it’s only matter of time before the doors are wide open with consequences for demographics to change drastically in very short period of time. I would say South Korea is going to be a unique case that is standing out in Asia.

  • Aigoooo

    its not like only the chinese-korean go around killing. but the fact that they are CHINESE-koreans rather than koreans makes those incidents THAT more interesting to you people. sigh… its not like koreans dont go around killing people…

  • Chucky3176

    Multicultural families will receive universal welfare payments and free programs regardless of their income, rich or poor. These same welfare payments and free programs are not available to South Korean citizens (both rich or poor) who must now pay with new taxes to support the new immigrants. Koreans are being very generous here with extensive lists of benefits, how’s it that Koreans are being racists?

    http://gesomoon.com/Ver2/board/view.php … Idx=302256

    This was in the Hangook Ilbo, and it just blows my mind. Why would they do this? And where is the outrage? There is none. If this was in the west where they only give welfare to rich and poor immigrants alike, but nothing to the natives, there would be riots on the streets. But not in Korea. This is going to bankrupt the country.

    • Justin Credible

      And people wonder why Koreans arent reproducing. The financial incentives to have children are going not to Koreans themselves but *gasp* foreigners! Multiculturalists, it seems, defend the legal status of foreigners with Korean nationality but disregard legal status when it fits their agenda – giving illegals Korean money. Shocking.

      Your statistics in regards to the foreign population here are pretty eye opening. Whats even more eye opening is the automatic assumption that naturalized citizens are now magically sociologically Korean, whatever thats supposed to mean. These multiculturalists genuinely believe that simply in virtue of their citizenship real Koreans will somehow consider them one of their own. Do Americans view me as American? Or do they see me as some indistinguishable Asian person who fits X, X, and X stereotype? Is there a reason why second generation Canadians identify with their parents homelands, rather than Canada itself? Did the LAPD come running to their fellow Americans aid when race riots broke out in Koreatown? No, they let the “un-American foreign ghetto dwellers” duke it out for themselves. Multiculturalists think foreigners in Korea – even foreigners with Korean nationality – wont end up in the same predicanent? Koreans have no conception of what favelas, Cabrini Greens, Harlems, Comptons, or Oaklabds are. This is part of the reason why so many blindly advocate multiculturalism. They honestly believe these foreigners will be comfortably integrated into a population that is 99% Korean and doesnt base Koreanness on nationality but blood ties. Wishful thinking indeed.

    • Kai

      Let me preface by saying I’m not defending any programs. I’m commenting to take issue with your overeager conflation and misrepresentation of the issue.

      First, having preferential policies for immigrants or minorities does not mean Koreans are not racists, just as preferential policies in China for Uighurs or Tibetans does not mean Chinese can not be discriminatory or racist against those populations, just as preferential Affirmative Action policies in the United States does not mean white Americans can not be racists. What one Korean thinks can easily be different from another Korean. Just because one Korean isn’t racist doesn’t mean another Korean isn’t.

      Second, many people in the west complain about welfare for minorities and immigrants. I don’t know why you seem to suggest that isn’t the case. In both Korea and the West, there are plenty of people who think certain policies are unfair and voice them online.

  • Anonton

    Wow. The craziness of xenophobia in korea continues to suprise me.

    And this is how the over react to people of ethnic descent… imagine if a few crimes in a period of time were by south east asians…. indians… africans…

    • Starfox

      Instead of asking for police to do their jobs they want to kick out all non “Koreans” and have “Korean” only crimes, ignoring the fact that “Korea” has always had foreign influence for the past 100+ years.

      The good thing is that this is just a very vocal minority but the problem is they are very very loud. It doesn’t help that they arm themselves with bullshit facts and no links or reference to any true science. Most Koreans are nice, just ignore the trolls.

  • Attaboy

    I wonder if the South Koreans noticed how after the two horrific university school shootings by Korean-American immigrants in the US, virtually NO ONE implied that the crimes were due to their ethnicity. The crimes were blamed on the individuals, not a race of people.

    Korea is an modern country, but in terms of their social belief systems, they are similar to a 1960’s US. A teacher friend of mine who taught there with me and was black was turned away from a half dozen different restaurants in her 4 months stint. She said it gave her a new outlook on what her mother and grandmother went through back home when they were young.

    Koreans may mock the Chinese immigrants but here in Beijing, the Chinese are much more accepting and curious to learn about other cultures.

    • chucky3176

      Attaboy, I don’t believe that story about the black woman. Sorry.

      Korea is far from 1960’s US where minorities were getting lynched and murdered, and there were specific laws in place to ensure segregation between the races. No such blatant things are in place in Korea, and foreigners are not getting attacked and murdered, like it happens often in the West currently. Not even close. For instance, you’ll never see gangs of hoodlums attacking Asians on a train because they are Chinese, and attempt to murder them, nor are there people throwing gasoline onto a faces of Korean women and setting the match, nor are there shooting and killing of innocent group of people because they looked Asian. Those things happen in the west, not Korea, and Korea is very safe place for foreigners.

      • Paul

        I can believe it. I’d raise an eyebrow if the story was set in Seoul, but the location isn’t specified. I mean, that’s happened to me in the space of mere weeks travelling the hick provinces. Most of those denials of service were because I was a lone traveller, but a couple were racially motivated (you can tell the difference because if you’re denied for being alone, you get an apology, if its race-based you get “Stupid America, no stupiid America, stupiiiiiid America. Hamburguh? Prenchi pry? Stupiiid America OUT!”).

        • Paul

          Not that that is comparable to the 1960s America you describe, but Attabot never stated that. He/She may have compared the beliefs (a point that I don’t feel qualified to comment upon) but not the actions.

        • chucky3176

          Paul, you shouldn’t have demanded hamburgers and french fries from a hick restaurant middle of nowhere, whose specialty is serving samgyupsal. Besides, I’d also get tired dealing with you too if I didn’t speak English, and you keep pestering me in English. It’s like a Korean walking into a restaurant in America, and start ordering in Korean, then wondering why the waiter is giving you the look.

          • Ami

            You’re making a lot of assumptions on paul’s part. No where did I see him say “I order a hamburger in english”. The native words for foods are usually one of the first things people learn when going to a new country. I think paul is implying he got turned out just for not looking korean.

      • Ami

        Why wouldn’t you believe it? A lot of african-americans and other black peoples complain about discrimination in Korea. You can look up videos on youtube or blogs and see it.

        Just because someones not getting lynched doesn’t mean they haven’t experienced racism. This goes for everyone asian,black or white.

        • chucky3176

          I do see a lot of youtube videos made by black men and women who say the kind of racism that they find at home, doesn’t exist in Korea. And that most of the charges are highly exaggerated.
          Go look it up in youtube.com, and judge for yourself, instead of just surmising based on your own impressions caused by what others have told you.

          • Ami

            Your logic is off. I understand that views vary from individual to individual but to completely debase other people’s experiences on some few’s experiences doesn’t make sense.
            How do you know the “charges” are exaggerated?

            And to that last part; thats how opinions are formed, by 1st 2nd and 3rd forms of information. I’ve experienced getting rudely treated by koreans (1st hand) and so have those on youtube (2nd). Not saying all Koreans are rude of course but I have experienced rudeness due to looking “different”. No offense.

        • linette

          Ami,

          I agree with you. I know. You and I are pointing out the truth and reality and the rest of the Koreans are lying and deceiving and believe they are not wrong. There is something wrong with the wiring in their heads. Maybe too much plastic surgery is causing the plastic toxicity going into their blood,then into their brain cells.

        • Guy Forget

          Don’t be ignorant. Black people cry racism all the time EVERYWHERE. So don’t think Korea has a problem. America is by far a more racist nation than Korea. Those ppl on youtube just whine and b*tch about korea instead of going back home and trying their luck to find a job there that they failed to find in the first place. Yeah, Korea offers you money and a good job, and all you have to do is complain and whine about how Korea won’t worship and bow to the foreigners and let them do whatever they want? Please.

  • lonetrey

    I feel like this is becoming more and more of a case of yellow journalism / sensationalism!! Seriously, they’re just playing this story up to get attention. This would be like saying “Black people are the majority of criminals in America! Lets round them all up and kick them out!” Totally wrong.

    “Don’t take the Joseonjok’s side. Since when has Korea, world famous for its great society, become like this? I don’t want to generalise about Joseonjok but this is serious. How can the rate of 1 in 100 000 (that is a criminal) and the rate 1 in two be regarded equal?

    It’s only now that this is revealed, but it was a known fact for almost everyone that Joseonjoks carry knives in areas like Ansan, with a lot of foreign workers. Guess what the Joseonjok say about this atmosphere around Koreans now?

    They say we won’t even breathe a word if we saw them in the flesh. It’s not only Joseonjok, but foreign workers from South Asia, like the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis who stare at Korean girls who pass by, continually without taking their eyes off. Why do WE have to live shut up and quiet in OUR land??? To hell with nonsense like multiculturalism ㅠㅠ”

    Behold, the great and noble Korean culture!

    • acorn

      very good point! and i am disturbed how well it sells…. Media really capitalised on this – though I start to see some very reflective comments on Joseonjok articles now…. not taking sides but just reflecting on why people react so viscerally to the coverage

    • chucky3176

      Agreed completely that this is all just a media frenzy about “xenophobe” Koreans and all, as an attempt to raise the profile for multiculturalism in Korea. The media is hyping it so much now that everybody is wondering how many Josoenjoks are getting hung up there on the trees, it’s so ridiculous. Not only that, it’s making South Koreans defensive now, as if they’re the ones who did something wrong because of the latest high profile grizzly crimes that came along in one, two, three, four punches in matter of days, it’s only natural some people to get pissed or start stereotyping people, considering that humans are humans, and there will be some who are like that. The Joseonjoks aren’t totally innocent either, who degrade their own image.

    • acorn

      i agree. very similar to Zainichi (Korean-Japanese) crime cases in Japan (2nd-3rd gen Koreans who don’t naturalise to Japan) are always drummed up – quite a few really gruesome murders there committed by zainichis, not to mention they run a number of big-scale organised crime syndicates – worse yet, quite a lot of them keep North Korean citizenship…. (i don’t care particularly, but imagine how that would look in the eye of ordinary japanese citizens)

      whenever this sort of stuff happnens, Koreans get very defensive and say “can’t judge a whole group of people by few bad apples – they are oppressed in Japan so it’s actually Japan’s fault”… not to mention so many Korean women go there illegally to make money as prostitutes…..

      yep, all the bad things being said about Josenjok, I heard it all before being said about overseas Koreans…..

      • chucky3176

        acorn, in fairness, compared to the Joseonjoks, Zainichi’s are absolute angels. They’ve been in Japan for generations, who have adopted Japanese culture, living in a law abiding developed first nation. Joseonjoks on the other hand are new immigrants from China who are very rough around the edges. Go visit Ansan Wolgokdong at night, and see the rampant violence that goes around there with the Joseojoks carrying knives around all the time, while the few remaining South Korean residents are scared stiff to go out at night because no police is enough to keep the order.

        • acorn

          i understand, and i have heard about the problems in Ansan (well, migrant workers being predominantly males in 20s-40s…)

          it is just the way zainichi crimes were often portrayed in Japan – zainich, on account of discrimination, etc were mostly engaged in unseemly businesses – pachinko, yakuza, money-laundering, loyalty to north korea, etc…. not to mention unfortunately very high-profile serial murder/rape cases that cropped up in the 80s-90s…. (many japanese people believe that aum-sarin leader is a zainichi as well…)

          i just intrigued by the parallel between the two – from what a number of quite honest japanese people told me, zainichi on a bad day, are seen as people that need to be deported / interned, etc as social and political threats.

          • chucky3176

            It’s absolutely untrue that aum-sarin leader is ethnic Korean. But I know that’s been going around within Japan.

          • chucky3176

            If pachinko, money laundering, loyalty to North Korea is all they got, we’ll trade those with what Ansan has. Many South Koreans are sympathetic to North Korea and anti-South Korean, so that’s not anything to bark about either. You don’t understand, it’s not just few murders lately that’s causing the animosity against Joseonjoks.

          • acorn

            yeah i know…. but that never stops the Japanese online right-wingers to spread the rumour tho

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_Japan#Crime

            “Hayashi Yasuo, terrorist in 1995 sarin gas attack by Aum Shinrikyo[citation needed]”

            even on english wiki page :D (citation needed)

          • acorn

            oh yeah, i know – i have not been to Ansan but Suwon I’ve been to and been around where the migrant workers live in large numbers.

            I’ve also lived very close to Oaktown in Cali, so I know a ghetto/urban slum when I see one – that’s not where Ansan is headed I hope for sure! But the problem is not as insane as people make it to be. In the 50s, when the Chinese migrants (the original migrants) arrived, the government was quite good at breaking it up, and now the 1st gen Chinese-Koreans are quite well-integrated (Jyun Ji-hyun, etc).

            Strong and strict police enforcement (I know how wimpy SoKo police looks compared to anti-narc and anti-OCS police force in the US and Canada, so they need to bulk them up a bit and establish strong presence) should really do the job.

            Just my two cents yo :p

        • acorn

          sorry, in the case of north korean attack , forgot to add that :)

          i think it’s more to do with the police attitude and orientation in South Korea – sometimes they are corrupted to a point of being a crime organisation themselves (the report bout an officer who ran his own brothel with the prostitutes he’d arrest, making millions in extortion and closing down his “competitors” etc)….. strict law and order approach should suffice, imo

          Vancouver, for instance, was able to pacify the Triad quite successfully and they were FAAAAR worse than anything Joseonjok could do – now the Chinese population there is quite docile and well-integrated (ok, driving is still bad though) :)

          • chucky3176

            acorn, xenophobia is far worse in Japan’s online communities, but Japanese media don’t go out of their ways to hype what’s said on the internet. Korean media on the other hand hypes up a few comments here and there on twitters, and says that’s the entire country – leading to foreigners like you to think the problem is far worse than it really is. It’s like saying what’s said on FOX on-line chat forum and say that represents the American people’s position.

            Again, it’s Korean news media, which likes to hype up stories.

          • acorn

            WEELLLLL, I would certainly like to believe so – but Japanese media are just as guilty in many ways. Do you read Japanese a bit? It could be quite bad if you keep up….
            I do think they are better for sure, only because of the journalistic standard being slightly higher, but tabloid and those “sports shimbun” are just as bad, if not worse……

            just to give you a quick example, just before the 1yr Tohoku earthquake anniv in late march, they widely reported that stupid youtube video by a dumbass Korean guy, endlessly replaying that video as being representative of the Korean sentiment (‘i think japan deserved the earthquake, haha suckas’, etc)…. I remember having to explain a lot to my japanese friends that he does not represent EVERY Korean opinion.

            imo, if there is money / publicity to be made, tabloids and media will stoop low, very low

            :0

          • chucky3176

            acorn, that’s an example of Japanese media causing the xenophobia against their outsiders. I’m talking about the Korean media, going the other way, and thrashing their own readers as if they are all racists. Two different things. Japanese media do not put down their own people, like the Korean media does.

          • acorn

            not clear what you mean chucky – could you clarify? not disagreeing with you, just not clear what you say about the media in Japan.

            Japanese media also gives cover quite a lot on the Japanese right-wingers, critical of their anti-multiculturalist, exclusionist attitude. Remember the anti-Korean wave coverage that exploded in Japan last month, forcing them to cancel lots of TV commercials featuring Korean actors/actresses? Fuji TV got targeted and got thrashed really bad for exactly this.

            From the right-winger perspective, Fuji TV was being out of line for promoting multiculturalism via giving too much coverage to the Korean wave and taking away opportunities for the Japanese TV talents.

            So, this happens quite a lot in Japan as well, so I am not quite clear why you think Japanese does not “thrash their audience” that way.

            The way I understand it is…. media start bandwagon -> media criticize bandwagon -> repeat :p

    • linette

      lonetrey

      “Behold, the great and noble Korean culture!”

      hahahahahahahhahaha…..

  • Brett Sanbon

    Please note that I am not stating anything about what I think Korea should do about immigration. I also mean no ill-intention against Korea or Koreans. I just wanted to prove some of the pompous asses in this thread that their “facts” and “logic” (non-logic) don’t necessarily agree with history and other respected Koreans.

    To educate myself I just bought the e-book “Ethnic Nationalism in Korea: Genealogy, Politics, And Legacy”, by Gi-Wook Shin. Very interesting so far.

    Yoon Pyung-joon from Hangshin University has some interesting thoughts on the matters of Ms. Lee and racial purity.
    http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/04/19/2012041901752.html?news_Head1

    B.R. Meyers has a lot of work on Koreans’ feelings of racial superiority. You can look up his work if you wish.

    Probably stupid to compare South Korea to Nazi Germany… Actually, I don’t want to and I never will. In this instance, Koreans already did. (Yes the article is from a few years ago)
    http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2007/03/20/2007032000663.html

    Finally, someone has already posted about this, but after I have been reading on the topic this past 2 weeks, it turns out that Koreans are not, and haven’t really ever been “pure-blooded”. Even people from different provinces have large genetic differences (lets not forget they speak different languages….. don’t talk about dialects, because I guarantee unless you were born in Jeju, you cant understand their language).

    Clearly, the experts in this thread are not as knowledgable as they wish to be. Let’s just be happy and live together in peace. How’s that sound?

  • h3ll

    Not taking any side:
    Multiculturalism has pros and cons : Yes.
    Generalizing and sterotyping it without have lived and/or experienced a (non limitated )multicultural environment and an homogeneous environment : No.
    Nobody is saying that Korea must embraces joyfully multiculturalism.Korea is doing it by itself and not so recently. Even in Japan, which has the tighter immigration policy than any other country,the number of foreign residents in Japan has increased and the biggest groups are Koreans , Chinese and Brazilians.
    The majority of Canada’s immigrants have come from Asia,specially China,Korea (again) and India. Vancouver and Toronto have the largest koreatowns. Not even talking about U.S. ,Australia,New Zealand. And what about the Hallyu? You cant expect to spread your culture to the world without getting the same feedback.
    Dont mistake me,I like Korea but Im not friend of double standards.
    Saying that just selected migrants to Western countries is only desirable doesnt guarantee that their descendants have the same or highest level of success and behavior. And comparing migrants from developed countries to non developed countries is treating them as second class citizens. Some people from 3rd countries (like they are called) are educated and proactive to benefit the new country where they relocated.Also not all asian people migrating to Western countries is educated and math experts.They are many,many illegal asian immigrants as well,being in the country with expired student visas,just not as targeted as hispanics,africans or other ethnicies.
    Dont mistake me,I like Korea but Im not friend of double standards.

  • Tippy Long Stocking

    Joseonjoks are Koreans who lived as chinese nationals? Or chinese people who have taken korean citizenship?

    • Jess

      Ethnic Koreans, from China, who hold citizenship from the People’s Republic of China. Most are the descendants of refugees and other migrants who left the peninsula during the Japanese occupation of Korea 100 years or so ago. There are about two million of them, mostly living in the Northeast.

      • chucky3176

        You better recheck your numbers. There USED to be 2 million of them, but at least half of them have disappeared. A good portion of them, about 700,000 to be exact, now live in South Korea.

        • linette

          The South koreans should take care of their own family the Joseonjok. China has been feeding the Joseonjok and they are not Chinese. Now the south Koreans should take some responsibilty and feed them. Treat them nice and stop treating them like second class citizen. Joseonjok are Koreans. They are your family.

          • Michelle Castro

            yes, all nations should take back their ethnic groups :p
            all chinese should migrate back to china, all indians should migrate back to india…..hope this makes you happy:p

      • Linette

        Joseonjok are ethnic Koreans who lives in China. They are not Chinese. There are like million of them in China and they speak Koreans(some speak Chinese also). They have their of Korean tradition. The China Chinese don’t see them as Chinese. But don’t treat them bad neither.

        But when these Joseonjok moved to south Korea, they are treated like second class citizens. That just tells you how racist and lowly educated these South koreans are. They weren’t taught in school about multicutural background nor do they have any understanding how to be culturally diverse like the American. On top of that, they are racist. They are like the Asian KKK people live in closed society. Really crazy.

        The South Koreans are plastic humans were 80% of the young koreans already had plastic surgery.
        The Joseonjok are poor uneducated koreans being treated like second class citizen in South korea and foreigners by China.

        I say China should ship all Koreans back to South korea and let them deal with their own people.

        • balooga

          wow.. tea pot calling the kettle black much? i love how you assume all korean’s are racist, and how you got 80% stats on plastic surgery with nothing to back it up, and how uneducated they are.. it tells me a lot about the education you’ve been recieving!!

  • Lori

    Maybe Americans don’t leave comments on this site but I’m amazed at the racism these people exude. What is the ratio of crimes committed by Chinese-Koreans to their population? Is it that different from Korean on Korean crime? Has anyone considered the possibility that this kind of hatred of an entire bi-racial group might be a contributing factor? Does hating an entire race somehow lift up “full blooded” Koreans? Do Koreans feel racially superior? I think there used to be a guy in Germany with this mentality.

    • Lynn

      Well, Lori, as you may know, there is a lot of bad recent history between Korea and Japan.

    • Lynn

      Lori–Oops! Please disregard my earlier comment. I was reading another article and wasn’t paying attention to yours very well.

  • Lynn

    OK. OK. Look there may be a serious problem with Chinese-Koreans. I happen to be an American-Korean and I think there is a more serious problem–and that is the arrogant incompetence of the Korean police.

  • Mich’insaeki

    ROFL. I remember this thread from back in the day when the Korea Times BBS was still unmoderated. Wut… ’96ish? Not a thing has changed. Well… apparently the British just discovered Korea 2 days ago… lmao… I was gonna say something insightful, but then I remembered what a waste of time it is participating in these online slagfests. I think I’ll jus go watch pron. Y’all have fun though.

  • Ciu Han kie

    I am Chinese who live in America and come across this news. I can tell you I love Korean people and their cultures (Food, music, movie etc.).
    I’m really shock that some of chinese-korean (joseonjok) behavior toward Korean citizen. I would recommend Korean people to punish this person severely as an example for other joseonjok so that will not repeat this kind of behavior. Murdering a human being or stabbing them regardless woman or man is just not acceptable. Maybe you need to put a death sentence to this joseonjok as an example that this kind of behavior is not forgivable or acceptable.
    On the other hand I also want to remind you that not all Chinese immigrants or Chinese people like myself will tolerate or do this kind of ridiculous behavior. There is different level of class in any race or society. Apparently this joseonjok come from the lowest.

    • jun

      chinese ethnic in korea are well off.

      chinese ethnic that koreans don’t like are taiwanese ethnic due to the confession taiwanese ethnic tv personel made.

      like she was blackmailed by them when she married korean.

      and don’t worry people may have stereotype toward chinese but not this kind.

    • Alice S

      I’m Chinese & I love everything Korean.

  • Ciu Han kie

    After reading the stories on other case involving a joseonjok murdered and raping teenage Korean victim I believe that Korea should definitely punish those people who doing this kind of crime. Korean justice should put a death sentence to this murderer bastards to make an example for anyone (joseonjok, immigrants or anybody else who have in mind to kill other human being) so that they will think twice before they got drunk and try to perform this kind of behavior.
    My prayer and condolences to the victims and their family.

  • Cleo

    Are you saying these are ethnic Chaosien from China?? Like the one who killed her daughter’s Japanese classmates for ostracizing her half-Japanese daughter?

    I’m totally confused because a Korean of Chinese descent would be running a dan dan mien joint or a pricey Chinese restaurant in Korea and basically blending in, right?

    • jun

      yeah ethnic chinese are well off
      we are talking about chinese of ethnic korean who abandoned their country when the war broke out.

  • Guy Forget

    I think the world is just jealous of korea’s homogeniety and harmony of one people one race being able to work its ass off the past 60-70 years virtually was the same as Kenya and now look at how much different they are now. I can see how in europe multiculturalism is doing really well, yeah. Islamic terrorism protests demonstrations daily…wonderful society it is. You won’t see it on the mainstream news nope cuz of course they can’t dare cover any news that might make mass immigration/multiculturalism look bad. But do the research yourself and you’ll finally open your eyes and realize what’s really going on in those countries…..it’s absolutely sickening.

  • Guy Forget

    I suppose those from America haven’t even heard of the daily killings of white people by black gangs as “initiation” to get in to the gang. It’s called, “hunting polar bears”. Yeah, none of you know about that cuz you’re all ignorant of the truth, only chugging down the bullshit lies your phony government keeps feeding you about multiculturalism beauty and equality. There is no such thing as equality. Eventually, one group of people will always outweight/outpower another. And for those in Africa, I guess you’ve never heard about white genocide happening there? Nope. Nobody ever mentions in the news about the genocide of white african farmers being lynched, mauled,by hordes of poor black people in S. Africa and parts of africa. There’s a hell of a lot of africans going to india too and there’s been killings back and forth recently. Most people not aware of the genocide happening in burma, myanmar as islamic extremists are wiping out villages and natives if they don’t convert to islam. Nope, all you know is what you see in hollywood movies because they teach you in hollywood movies that race mixing is good and we should allow millions to immigrate and live together in peace and harmony. LOL.

  • Jonjon

    짱깨짱깨짱깨짱깨짱깨짱깨짱깨짱깨

  • actionjksn

    Chinese Immigrants in the US are mostly very decent hard working people. But we have a far worse illegal immigrant problem here than you have in Korea. Ours come from central and south America and they are raping, stealing, robbing and killing all they want. Our government thinks that is just fine and that we need a lot more of it. You people better stop this before you end up like us. Also I know it’s hard to afford kids but, if you don’t start having more children your government will end up allowing a lot more immigration and you will be over run.

  • KamenTeacher

    There are many illegal chinese in Korea call themselves chosunjok………………

  • Korea1Disqus1

    Chosunjok means Koreans in Chinese…… Koreans calling them Chosunjok is really really inconsiderate….. Just call them Koreans living in China. When you say Chinese-Korean it can mean ( overseas Chinese) living in Korea.

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